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Carl, then by all means do so, acting positively is always more effective than acting negatively towards others activism.
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<div class="">As I said before, ANSWER is the one anti-war organization formed before the Iraq war, as an opponent to war, and they have never stopped or given up protesting against war. So, criticizing them for going out against fascism seems to me to be rather
petti, and I think you would agree, if you weren’t set on being contentious.
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<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 15:06, Estabrook, Carl G <<a href="mailto:galliher@illinois.edu" class="">galliher@illinois.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">But changing the system is going to happen if we continue to chant, "Fascism is nasty!" (with significant side-eye)?<br class="">
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Maybe we should oppose US war-making - instead of rooting for Sanders and Warren and all the other pro-war liberal Democrats. ("If we could just give the Democrats control of the Congress in the fall...")<br class="">
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<div id="divRpF720011" style="direction: ltr;" class=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Peace-discuss [<a href="mailto:peace-discuss-bounces@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace-discuss-bounces@lists.chambana.net</a>]
on behalf of Karen Aram via Peace-discuss [<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>]<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 13, 2018 11:28 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>E. Wayne Johnson<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>peace; C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss; Peace Discuss<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class=""><font class="">You won’t get any argument from me, on that one. As a former Democrat, I now see them as the biggest obstacle to solving our problems of war, poverty, and all else. Due to their support for FP, and distractions
related to nazis, racism, gender inequality, the illusion of "we are better than that.” </font></blockquote>
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<font class="">Thats not to say racism, gender inequality, and the far right aren’t legitimate concerns, they are part of our system of injustice and inequality, and until we focus on changing our system of profit, we will not have any change in these conditions.</font></div>
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<div class=""><font class="">Changing the system isn’t going to happen if we continue to alienate or rail against the Democrats, ignoring the Republicans or neocons, given they are part of the same system, playing good cop vs. bad cop. </font></div>
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<font class="">It isn’t going to “enlighten” anyone, let alone liberals or what is now referred to as the “ left.”</font></div>
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<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 08:30, E. Wayne Johnson <<a href="mailto:ewj@pigs.ag" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">ewj@pigs.ag</a>> wrote:</div>
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I am not very impressed with the Democrats. They dont believe in the Bill of Rights or freedom of expression.<br class="">
They dont really care about stopping war or stopping the waste of money and human lives it represents.<br class="">
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I really see the Democrat party as a bigger threat to the world than is the KKK. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
I dont suppose that left to themselves, the KKK could have much of an impact.<br class="">
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The Democrat party is pretty much the publicity arm of the KKK.<br class="">
If not for the Dems, no one much would give a ripe red one about what<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
the KKK is doing. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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White supremacy and neo-nazis are not really all that cool and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
it doesnt seem that ya gotta have a cow about them to get people to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
not sucked in by their alluring indoctrinations.<br class="">
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I'd say it's those same folks who are trying to tell us that the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
Russians hacked the election who are also having a conniption fit about<br class="">
Nazis in America. Not many people are going to buy into the notion<br class="">
that Schickelgruber was actually a really nice guy, just poorly understood.<br class="">
It is certain that Americans "aint too swuft" but Nazis threatening America?<br class="">
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I'd be a lot more worried about things like tetanus and crab grass.<br class="">
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Karen Aram via Peace-discuss wrote:<br class="">
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Carl
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<div class="">The Nixon Administration ended the draft in 1973, only two weeks after the largest demonstration ever, the Counter Inaugural. Kissinger alluded to that in his memoirs. </div>
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<div class="">As to Nixon being re-elected because “Peace is at Hand” statements by the Republican Administration, you’ve got to be kidding. After four years of Nixon, with the bombing of Cambodia, the American people weren’t so stupid as to believe anything
the government said at that time. The problem was, many did think by the end of “72” that the war had been wound down, at least it wasn’t escalated, and all the talk about Paris Peace talks, provided the illusion that it was no longer an issue. </div>
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<div class="">When people have given up hope, they stay home and don’t vote. </div>
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<div class="">Again, as an organizer and supporter for McGovern I saw people giving up. It’s similar to what happened after four years of GW Bush, people just gave up.</div>
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<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 06:36,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:bjornsona@ameritech.net" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">bjornsona@ameritech.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">Appropo some Americans only protest war when it hits them in the draft or their pocketbook: We were in what is billed as the "3rd largest Whole Foods" in the world in Lincoln Park, just off 94 & North Ave. yesterday. Apparently, #1
is Austin, TX and #2 is in London, Eng. At least that is what the cashier said. Complete with a locker wall interface to Amazon so that people can have their Amazon purchases delivered to Whole Foods and pick them up when shopping. </div>
<div dir="auto" class="">It rather did feel like being at the center of an Empire. </div>
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<div dir="auto" class=""><i class="">Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone</i></div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">------ Original message------</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mon, Aug 13, 2018 7:40 AM</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Karen Aram;</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>peace;Peace Discuss;</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><b class="">Subject:</b>Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Anti-Fascist Demonstration in DC Yesterday</div>
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The Nixon administration ended the draft in 1973 because of the revolt of the US expeditionary force in Vietnam. Conscript soldiers were no longer reliable.
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<div class="">By 1969 about 70% of the public had come to regard the war as “fundamentally wrong and immoral,” not “a mistake,” largely as a result of the impact of student protest on general consciousness. </div>
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<div class="">US business had by 1968 told President Johnson that the costs of the war were too high and it needed too be liquidated. He effectively resigned.</div>
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<div class="">Richard Nixon was the peace candidate in 1968: he had a 'secret plan’ for ending the war. He was re-elected in 1972 because his Secretary of State announced, “Peace is at hand.”</div>
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<div class="">Ending US wars in SW Asia today will not be so easy as ending wars in SE Asia (which the US essentially won) was then. Nor will it probably follow a similar pattern.</div>
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<div class="">And it’s unlikely it will be done by taking up the Democrats’ disingenuous cry that the elected president is a fascist (and a Russian puppet!) - and not mentioning the wars and war provocations, except incidentally, as this rally did.</div>
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<div class="">The situation is closer to the mid-1960s, when an anti-war movement had to be built from scratch, and the Democrats were screaming, “...Let every nation know ... that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”! </div>
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<div class="">Liberty for whom is clearer now. —CGE</div>
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<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Karen Aram <<a href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">karenaram@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="">Sorry Carl, your focus on only one issue is detrimental to building a movement.
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That is what this is all about. ANSWER more than any organization in the US is focused on war and foreign policy, but as most Americans really don’t care about war, afterall “we’re not killing Americans like us” and you can argue that point all you want but
the fact is:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
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<div class="">1) The largest protests against war in the US pre intervention of Iraq, was really opposing Bush policy’s and was organized by the Democrats.</div>
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<div class="">2) The protests against just about everything the past two years is about Trump, and organized by the Democrats.</div>
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<div class="">3) The protests in the 70’s died when Nixon dropped the draft. I was there, I was with the organizers who managed the largest ever protest during that time, the Counter Inaugeral, and that is precisely why Nixon eliminated the draft, after that
it was extremely difficult to get the numbers.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
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<div class="">4) Only the “Costs of war” are going to bring people out into the streets enmass in D.C. because of the impact on individual lives.</div>
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<div class="">5) Organizing against the many horrific policies being promoted by the current USG due to our system of capitalism which is the cause of all, including war, takes strategy and tactics to educate, organize, and coordinate. It means working with
others on issues of concern. Just talking about it in a venue that suits us, isn’t getting us anywhere.</div>
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<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 04:39, C G Estabrook <<a href="mailto:cgestabrook@gmail.com" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">cgestabrook@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;">But they were not chanting, “No war! Bring the troops home!”
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<div class="">It’s a distraction. Fascism is not the problem. US war-making is.</div>
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<div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 6:34 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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<a href="http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=1" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><img src="http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/answercoalition/sites/1/meta_images/original/newANSWERlogo3.png" alt="ANSWER
Coalition" class="" height="auto" width="220" border="0"></a></td>
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<p class="" style="margin-bottom: 1em;"><img src="https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/answercoalition/mailings/2516/attachments/original/dcaug12demo.jpg?1534126286" alt="15,000
gather against
Nazis and KKK
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Dear Karen, </p>
<p class="" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">Today, was an amazing demonstration of strength and unity. By 4pm there were more than 15,000 people in Lafayette Park chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist USA”.</p>
<p class="" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">It was a remarkable demonstration of unity from so many communities: Black, Latino, Asian, Arab, white people, young and old. All stood together to condemn the Nazis and KKK who thought they could come and rally in front
of the White House, because they believe they have a dear friend who occupies that residence. It was shameful that the U.S. government and police spent millions of tax dollars to act as a private security escort for a handful of fascists. The police escorted
them on the metro and provided police vans to take them from the Washington, D.C. area back to Virginia. </p>
<p class="" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">We will give a more detailed report of what happened in the coming days, but we wanted to give a shout out tonight and a huge thank you to everyone who supported this effort. Thousands of people volunteered, mobilized,
or donated to make this success possible. Everyone should feel very proud. Most importantly, we laid the basis for taking next steps in making this new movement even stronger. <br class="">
<br class="">
In solidarity, <br class="">
All of us at ANSWER Coalition <br class="">
<a href="http://www.answercoalition.org/?e=34e47c8f266e39ec7d3a5d2b76038f9f&utm_source=answercoalition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cville_thankyou&n=2" class="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.answercoalition.org/</a><br class="">
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