<html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">John, you attacked me diminishing my postings as “simple," because you couldn’t deal with the issue, they aren’t simple, but you don’t care to read or listen, you just want to excuse “everyone," as if you are a spokesperson for everyone, for not taking an interest. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Naiman now having learned from Media Benjamin, has something to talk about but still criticizes me for “scaremongering,” with exactly what experts on Russia and anti-war are saying. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I suppose I shouldn’t refer to US/Nato provocations as putting us on the threshold of WW3. I should just quote David Swanson as referring to it as placing us in a situation of "ABOUT TO FUCKING DIE ALONG WITH EVERY OTHER LIVING THING ON EARTH.
Nuclear apocalypse is faster than climate apocalypse or imaginary
meteors, but nobody survives it. Everything ends. The scientists last
week said the Doomsday Clock is staying one tick away from midnight
because the risk has never been higher.”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Naiman is referring to me only, as "stupid and evil." You’re his pal agreeing with him as you did. As to my getting pleasure calling you self-absorbed, it gives me no pleasure but your insistence when I post something instead of looking at the issue, you attack the messenger, unless it’s another "progressive.” </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So I can now leave this waste of a “Peace List/Peace Discuss List, with the exception of a few, knowing that you two and hopefully others provoked by the arguments, are well aware of what is taking place, and you can all jump on the anti-war bandwagon as if you invented it. Though you really should read the articles so you know what you’re talking about. </div>
<p class=""></p><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 25, 2022, at 8:18 PM, John W. <<a href="mailto:jbw292002@gmail.com" class="">jbw292002@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><div class="">The two of you have just proved my point once again, better than I could ever make the point. This list in microcosm is the world in macrocosm. You can call me "self-absorbed" if it gives you pleasure, Karen, and Robert can call us all "stupid" and "evil" if he wants to. But this jejune infighting is why "progressives" can have absolutely no power or effectiveness in the Real World. You'll never, ever learn.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:36 PM karen aram via Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" class="">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">Robert</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>You’re really funny, you just learned about it today, based upon your previous emails. <div class=""><div class=""> Your insistence, "it’s a distraction, your insistence the USG isn’t insane," on and on </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your insistence we listen to the webinar related to Yemen, which we’ve known about for seven years with no change in direction from the US, our government representatives, and our proxy the KSA in their goal of total destruction, and control. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But "oh my," you know more about this than I and I’m the one who is "stupid and evil.” Come on, you can do better than that, threaten me with bodily harm, as you have in the past. </div><div class="">Your misogyny betrays you. I’ll stop taunting you, when you stop with the lies and propaganda, and stop addressing me.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We should all thank Stuart for his email invitation to Code Pink’s webinar enlightening Robert and hopefully others.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 25, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Robert Naiman <<a href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Karen, <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I know more about this than you do. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why do you taunt me with your evil stupidity? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 5:40 PM karen aram <<a href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com" target="_blank" class="">karenaram@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">Robert </div><div class=""><br class=""></div>You couldn’t be more wrong about the USG, we’ve destroyed how many nations in how many years? You’re right and they're not insane, they're just greedy, hegemonies, imperialists looking at profits and they don’t care how many lives they destroy. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Obviously you haven’t been paying attention related to what is taking place in Ukraine, Russia and Nato. I’m referring to going beneath the surface, not just skimming the headlines.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For starters: read Morton Brussel’s second paragraph below, he knows exactly what is taking place. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Read or listen to the links I provided by experts in the field. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Just listen to what "The Nation’s,” Katrina Vandenheuval has to say, on "Democracy Now," both of which are liberal Democrat media’s, not socialists nothing to be feared. Ray McGovern former CIA Analyst and advisor to the Reagan government, now retired and reformed. They are just two people who focus on what is taking place in the world, specifically the targets of US imperialism since at least 1917. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And, if you think our nuclear missiles and Nato being spread across Europe isn’t dangerous, please understand: it takes only one, only one accident, and accidents do happen.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 25, 2022, at 3:08 PM, Robert Naiman <<a href="mailto:naiman.uiuc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">naiman.uiuc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I'm not denigrating being concerned about what the U.S. is doing in Ukraine. I'm denigrating the scaremongering about "World War 3." That's nonsense. It's not how the U.S. behaves. It's not how Russia behaves. Proxy war is not the same thing as direct war. That doesn't mean that proxy war is ok. Proxy war is not ok. Proxy war is monstrous. It has destroyed country after country. But it's not a threat to Americans, which is why they do it and mostly get away with it. We should be honest about this. We should tell the truth about this. Lying about it isn't going to improve anything. You can temporarily get people excited. But you can't sustain activism like this. Nobody will stick with concern about Ukraine once they cut a deal and it's out of the headlines. It's ephemeral. It's a Shiny Object. It's not building anything. It's not doing anything about the big harms that U.S. foreign policy is causing. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Yemen. Millions of human beings on the brink of starvation in Afghanistan. What is Ukraine compared to that? It's a nothingburger. How does jumping up and down about Ukraine help with that? It doesn't help with that. It doesn't do anything. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Look at Syria. The U.S. was happy to mess around in Syria, promote sectarian civil war to undermine the regime. But when the Russians intervened directly, the U.S. said: "Oh, ok." They weren't going to fight Russia over Syria. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">They are not going to fight the Russians over Ukraine. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 2:24 PM karen aram <<a href="mailto:karenaram@hotmail.com" target="_blank" class="">karenaram@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class="">Robert, </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You’re right about Yemen, it’s a terrible situation, one which was created in 2015 by the Obama Administration, along with the destruction of Libya and Syria. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That doesn’t negate what is taking place in Ukraine on the borders of Russia, which began during the Reagan Administration, became obvious during the Obama Administration, and now has us on the verge of WW3. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For those so certain the US isn’t insane, and won’t go to war with Russia, you need to recognize the USG uses proxy’s and having Ukraine destroyed in a proxy war doesn’t bother them at all. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The provocations of Russia by Nato is urging regime change for another Yeltsin, or force Russia to annex portions of Ukraine, the Donbass region specifically, which could result in war with the potential for WW3.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When experts on "foreign policy" are even more concerned now than ever over this issue, denigrating those in this community showing the same concern, is insulting.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So here, be my guest, and educate yourself: </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have more articles if anyone is interested. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/" target="_blank" class="">https://popularresistance.org/ukraine-crisis-us-toolboxes-are-empty/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span dir="auto" class=""><a href="https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fraymcgovern.com%2F2022%2F01%2F23%2Fperfidious-albion-giving-grist-to-nyt%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2ILirkN93s1nZcckTPemRbTBXvU3f5SLJo-PcQDrpprE2lRdhGMFqqvtA&h=AT3KLz-SU_m0WuubsmLju_TtI0y67N02zQD8KrotYF56k4liIQmfme8fNHrZ_E-DznBsr42QA4nEUmCdNjfM5aO_g7VUtdSFSJX5aLo8EuTZixwIBZH-PdQO0NRb6QwQ7pStJmk&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT3I2vkorbr6_pGXS0Avxt-MWOiY2nDtm4mvshP_InAS7XQW3hdvFKbYT6urDmFDsLtrnCaPoIWGozg2lf_UemxZBDRejHaHUGaD0UuGOU2s5sBob0KtT0gNytd5VSszFXMSD2ANnmdrVU6urm9iW7fflNfwlc9JWU8E-6nIEeCI49Cg8jZ5_IG6iuNQSHuHPBh0sX10MVqUJwd7G8Tw" rel="nofollow noopener" role="link" target="_blank" class="">https://raymcgovern.com/.../perfidious-albion-giving.../</a></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs" target="_blank" class="">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYgXQo2aQs</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/" target="_blank" class="">https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/547244-head-of-german-navy-forced/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/" target="_blank" class="">https://www.rt.com/shows/news-on-rt-america/546815-ben-norton-americans-dont-want/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:19 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace <<a href="mailto:peace@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" class="">peace@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><div class="">If you believe that the United States is going to war with Russia over Ukraine, please raise your hand. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is not how the U.S. Empire works. Did the U.S. go to war with Russia over Syria? If the U.S. wasn't willing to go to war with Russia over Syria, why would the U.S. be willing to go to war with Russia over Ukraine? This is all Blob hype in the media to pressure Biden to be more aggressive. But whatever Biden does, it's not going to be war with Russia. Biden is not insane. They'll send some more military stuff, they'll deploy a few thousand more troops to NATO countries in Eastern Europe, they'll impose more economic sanctions on Russia, though not any that would badly hurt the German economy, which means that they're not going to get carried away. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Do you remember in grade school, when they said: "Pick on someone your own size"? That's something the U.S. Empire NEVER does. Reagan talked tough on the Soviet Union. Then he invaded Grenada, a country the size of Champaign-Urbana. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here's why this matters. There is an "emergency" Codepink webinar today at 8pm ET on the U.S.-Saudi war-blockade-famine-genocide in Yemen. How many people are going to go to both? Which is the real emergency, the Blob media hype that can never result in a war with Russia because the people running the U.S. are not insane, or Yemeni children starving to death because the U.S. is helping the Saudi regime blockade Yemen, in violation of Article I of the U.S. Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here is the real emergency Codepink webinar today for the people who don't want to chase Shiny Objects in the Blob-dominated U.S. media: </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">"Please join CODEPINK for #YemenCan'tWait Emergency On-Line Action with a briefing from Yemenis.</div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">Tues., Jan. 25, 5 PM (PT), 8 PM (ET)</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><a href="https://www.codepink.org/yemenemergencyaction" target="_blank" class="">RSVP HERE.</a><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">The Saudi-UAE coalition recently attacked<span class=""> </span><span class="">Yemen</span>'s communication infrastructure, leaving all of<span class=""> </span><span class="">Yemen</span><span class=""> </span>without connection to the internet. Initial reports of Saudi-led strikes have high civilian casualties. People in the U.S. need to take action now. Join us on January 25 at 8PM ET to engage on social media and call our members of Congress. Attendees will be briefed on the situation on the ground at the beginning & given all the tools and language for taking action. Please RSVP and invite friends. We need all hands on deck."</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 9:04 AM Stuart Levy via Peace-discuss <<a href="mailto:peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net" target="_blank" class="">peace-discuss@lists.chambana.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="">
Biden has just ordered 8500 US troops to be on alert for possible
deployment to Eastern Europe... "lethal aid" has already been
delivered to Ukraine.<br class="">
<br class="">
US politicians across the spectrum are expressing their "support"
for Ukraine, and the US media have been preparing us for war.<br class="">
<br class="">
At <b class="">3PM Central Time </b>today, Jan. 25th, <b class="">CODE PINK will
hold an emergency webinar:<br class="">
<br class="">
</b>
<blockquote class=""><font size="4" class=""><b class=""><a href="https://www.codepink.org/092522?recruiter_id=428144" target="_blank" class="">Click
Here to sign up for the webinar -- www.codepink.org/092522</a></b></font></blockquote>
<blockquote class=""><b class="">Join an emergency webinar discussion between
CODEPINK'S Medea Benjamin and retired Army Colonel Larry
Wilkerson today at 3:00 PM Central time. </b>Larry Wilkerson is
a professor at the College of William & Mary and was chief of
staff to U.S Secretary of State Colin Powell. <b class="">After ending his
military career, Wilkerson publicly criticized the Iraq War</b>
and has been a vocal opponent of U.S. policies that put militarism
before diplomacy. <br class="">
<br class="">
<i class=""><b class=""><a href="https://www.codepink.org/092522?recruiter_id=428144" target="_blank" class="">RSVP
FOR THE WEBINAR HERE!</a></b></i><i class=""><b class=""><br class="">
</b></i><br class="">
<b class="">The U.S. and NATO, whose Response Force is composed of some
40,000 international troops, are exacerbating a conflict that
could easily result in war between the world’s two most heavily
armed nuclear states – the United States and Russia.</b> We must
immediately demand that NATO, the U.S., Russia and Ukraine pursue
vigorous diplomacy for a negotiated solution. There is every
reason to believe that a compromise can be made with Russia, <b class="">including
a guarantee that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.</b><br class="">
<br class="">
RSVP for today’s webinar and send a message to your
representatives in Congress, telling them to pressure Biden not to
go to war with Russia over Ukraine. Tell Congress that you want
negotiations, not escalation. <br class="">
<br class="">
Since 2015, the Minsk II Accord has successfully prevented a new
escalation of the civil war in Ukraine. But the United States and
NATO have encouraged the Ukrainian government to ignore its
obligations under Minsk II, and to instead reassert absolute
sovereignty over the Donbas region. <b class="">They have supplied
powerful weapons, which Ukraine has deployed and used in Eastern
Ukraine. </b><b class=""><br class="">
</b><br class="">
Russia has always been opposed to NATO’s eastern expansion to its
borders, and it is determined to stop Ukraine from entering NATO.
In 2008, when Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko first applied
for NATO membership, President Putin called Ukrainian membership
"a direct threat" to Russia. <b class="">NATO is a military alliance that
should have dissolved with the dissolution of the Soviet Union
and the Warsaw Pact. It should certainly not be expanding to
include Ukraine. <br class="">
<br class="">
</b><p class=""><span style="font-weight:400" class="">Rather than NATO dissolving
with
the Warsaw Pact, as it should have done, it has violated</span><span style="font-weight:400" class=""> the agreements that brought the
original
Cold War to an end and reunified Germany. Instead of keeping
its
promise not to expand eastward, it</span><span style="font-weight:400" class=""> has added 11 member countries that were once either
Soviet
republics or members of the Warsaw Pact. </span></p><p class=""><strong class="">Now the situation is teetering on the brink of a
massive
war. The time to speak out is now! </strong></p><p class=""><span style="font-weight:400" class=""><a style="color:rgb(204,0,153)" href="https://www.codepink.org/092522?recruiter_id=428144" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(204,0,153)" class=""><strong class="">Join
the webinar</strong></span></a> on the crisis in Ukraine</span><span style="font-weight:400" class=""> and </span><span style="color:rgb(204,0,153)" class=""><strong class=""><a style="color:rgb(204,0,153)" href="https://www.codepink.org/ukraine_congress?e=38045e0b248b322e5a3a8b9d6b8774fb&utm_source=codepink&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ukraine_emergency_3&n=11" target="_blank" class="">tell
Congress not to let Biden send troops to Eastern
Europe!</a></strong></span></p><p class="">Towards peace,<strong class=""><em class=""><br class="">
</em></strong><strong class=""><em class="">Medea and
the entire CODEPINK team:<span class=""> </span></em><em class="">Alice,
Allison, Ann,
Ariel, Carley, Danaka, Emily, Farida, Jodie, Justina, Kelly,
Lauren,
Leonardo, Madison, Marcy, Marissa, Mark, Michelle, Nancy,
Olivia,
Paki, Teri, Shea, and Suzie<br class="">
</em></strong></p>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
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