[Commotion-dev] SPAN Apps Published to Google Play

Tue Jan 22 23:39:23 UTC 2013

Hi Paul,

I just want to say that the mesh helper is a very cool idea. It
reminds me of the Persistent Systems Man Portable Unit (MPU):
http://www.persistentsystems.com/products_7a.php

Essentially the MPU acts as an AP which lets devices send data over
the Persistant Systems high powered long distance 2.4 / 5 GHz MANET.

A cheaper, open source, developer-friendly solution would be great.
Using an available ISM band for long distance comms makes sense.

- stoker

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 3:41 PM, Paul Gardner-Stephen
<paul at servalproject.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As CyanogenMod seems to be using github these days, it would make it
> much easier to implement something like this.  It would require some
> committed developer resource to progressively target various devices.
> I fear that it might be a perpetual game of catch up to make the ROMs,
> and there is a question of cost-effectiveness.
>
> This is why Serval has been thinking for a while now about making a
> mesh helper device instead.  Basically, people keep using their
> existing android (or other platform phone), and it associates to the
> mesh helper as a WiFi client, and they run only a "normal" non-root
> application on their phone.
>
> The mesh helper simultaneously runs a WiFi AP and ad-hoc interface,
> thus offloading the ad-hoc WiFi from the phone where support is hard,
> but also reducing the power requirements for the user's phone, because
> client mode is more energy efficient than ad-hoc mode.  The helper
> device would itself be mobile-phone hardware derived, as this is the
> cheapest way to make it.
>
> Another nice thing about the helper device is that one helper can be
> shared by a number of people in its range. It can also serve up the
> APKs for the various mesh applications that people might want to use.
>
> We are also planning that the mesh helper device should have an
> Arduino or similar built in, so that we can add arbitrary RF front
> ends to allow long-range mesh communications.  For example in
> countries where the ISM 915MHz band is available (USA, AU, NZ, ZA,
> Israel and a number of others, but not Europe), we can use a HopeRF
> RFM23BP to transmit at 1W with a simple wave form at 128kbit/sec,
> gaining approximately 25db -- 29db over 2.4GHz WiFi, resulting in 16x
> - 30x range compared with WiFi.
>
> We have some initial funding from NLnet Foundation to prototype this
> using Draginos, and have made some progress, and once we have a few
> other blocking tasks out the way, will begin to work on integrating an
> RFM23BP as a 915MHz frontend.  See the following URL for some
> information on what we have been doing and plan to do over the next
> few months:
>
> http://developer.servalproject.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=content:meshhelper:main_page
>
> Paul.
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 4:38 AM, stoker <mistr.stoker at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Teco,
>>
>> The Manet Manager app has an integrated Manet Service that lets other
>> apps configure the network through an API call. Another app can create
>> a ManetConfig object, set all of the parameters, and pass it down to
>> the service. It's optional. A user can also configure the mesh through
>> the Manet Manager UI.
>>
>> I understand your use of scripts. Under the hood both the Manet
>> Manager and Serval Mesh apps use edify scripts to detect devices and
>> configure them for ad-hoc mode. The apps execute the edify scripts in
>> a native process. The edify scripts provide some additional Android
>> functions versus shell scripts, such as loading/unloading the wifi
>> module. When the Manet Manager needs to execute other native commands
>> with elevated privileges (like starting olsrd) it writes those
>> commands to a script on the fly and executes the script with su.
>>
>> Creating a set of scripts and limiting their access to the Manet
>> Manager / Serval Mesh app in a custom ROM is an interesting idea.
>> We've thought about creating a ROM where the Manet Manager would be a
>> system app and therefore have advanced privileges and not be randomly
>> killed off by the performance manager.
>>
>> I highly encourage updating / branching CyanogenMod. Certain devices
>> require certain modifications to enable wext support and enable ad-hoc
>> mode. At this time my team doesn't have a large enough developer base
>> to make custom modifications to each CyanogenMod kernel, so it's a
>> task we haven't addressed. Maybe it would be best to select one device
>> at first and go from there? If that's the case, I support choosing the
>> Galaxy Nexus or Nexus 7.
>>
>> - stoker
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Teco Boot <teco at inf-net.nl> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I would love a flexible ad hoc / manet management app. And have
>>> integrated network setting functions in "user apps" as optional,
>>> or taken out there.
>>>
>>> I use scripts myself, where I configure and start/stop what I need.
>>> I have a wlan nic settings script, a script for olsrd, for openvpn
>>> and iptables. I expect more to come (e.g.DNS).
>>> Reasoning behind scripts: in Linux, daemons are managed with scripts,
>>> this provides custom modifications.
>>> What about having scripts for each sub-task and an app as interface
>>> to the scripts?
>>>
>>> Another thought for longer term: have a non-rooted custom rom with
>>> all of this. Scripts have root privilege, needed for for example
>>> managing routing table.
>>>
>>> I use Galaxy Nexus, adjusted CM10. I have ipip enabled (for olsrd
>>> smartgateway). The bmf plugin is fixed for tuntap (to be included
>>> in next olsrd version).
>>> Shall we try to update CM10, with wext and ipip?
>>>
>>> Teco
>>>
>>>
>>> Op 20 jan. 2013, om 23:03 heeft Paul Gardner-Stephen het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 7:36 AM, stoker <mistr.stoker at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>> We look forward to trying out the Serval Mesh app update. The current
>>>>> app supports a number of features, including text chat, placing calls,
>>>>> sharing files, and mapping. Does your team have plans to separate each
>>>>> of those features out into separate app? I believe that will make
>>>>> matters simpler from a developer's as well as from a user's
>>>>> perspective.
>>>>
>>>> Maps is already a separate app for this reason.  However, the calling,
>>>> text messaging and file exchange are all based on the core Serval
>>>> protocols, and past experience has shown that having (at least the
>>>> core function of) those in separate apps that require installation is
>>>> disadvantageous, because they are naturally closely coupled, calls and
>>>> MeshMS in particular.  The Rhizome protocol that facilitates the file
>>>> sharing is used under the hood to power MeshMS and software updates as
>>>> well as regular file exchange.
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for pointing us to your handset detection and support code.
>>>>> Since both of our projects are using the edify approach, I believe it
>>>>> won't be difficult to integrate our code. However, I believe that it
>>>>> would be best for the Commotion team to integrate all of our
>>>>> mesh-enabling code into their Mesh Tether app.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I see it, there are three kinds of devices that the teams are
>>>>> primarily targeting:
>>>>> - devices which support wext and can be put into ad-hoc mode without
>>>>> kernel mods (Serval)
>>>>> - devices which don't support wext and can be put into ad-hoc mode
>>>>> without kernel mods (Commotion)
>>>>> - devices which require kernel mods (SPAN)
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe we'd all like to see one app which can support all three. I
>>>>> believe that the Commotion team is best suited for the task
>>>>> considering their focus and large developer base. More developers
>>>>> means a wider array of devices to test on and more long-term support.
>>>>
>>>> I totally agree. We would love to see a single app that just provides
>>>> ad-hoc wifi and the related functions, and has wide support as you
>>>> envisage.
>>>>
>>>> Paul.
>>>>
>>>>> - stoker
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Paul Gardner-Stephen
>>>>> <paul at servalproject.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Stoker,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 8:39 AM, stoker <mistr.stoker at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For those who want to get geeky, I just posted three apps to Google
>>>>>>> Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=stoker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try 'em out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both the Manet Visualizer and Manet Voice Chat apps make use of a
>>>>>>> common API for interacting with the Manet Service that comes bundled
>>>>>>> with the Manet Manager app. I believe that the idea of a common API
>>>>>>> for making use of the mesh platform may be one of the aspects that
>>>>>>> sets SPAN apart from other projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Serval Mesh app (which is about to get a HEAVY update) also offers
>>>>>> some APIs, but probably mostly in complementary areas to your Manet
>>>>>> Manager.  We will endeavour to take a look at your apps soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With regard to handset support, it might be worth taking a look at our
>>>>>> handset detection and support code
>>>>>> (https://github.com/servalproject/batphone), as we have already built
>>>>>> support for a number of other handsets, and an automatic guessing
>>>>>> engine that can build support scripts for some new handsets it
>>>>>> encounters.  It's not perfect, but it may be useful to incorporate
>>>>>> into Manet Manager.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - stoker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Commotion-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> Commotion-dev at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-dev
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commotion-dev mailing list
>>>> Commotion-dev at lists.chambana.net
>>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/commotion-dev
>>>>
>>>