[Commotion-discuss] Website feedback from hackday on "warning" sign

Wed Jun 12 20:22:13 UTC 2013

Agreed. This should be a considered process.

Do you have any ideas on how we can test new versions and track results?

-andrew

On 06/12/2013 04:02 PM, Georgia Bullen wrote:
> I absolutely hear what you are saying Seamus, and understand the reasoning
> and all of the work you have put into the warning label.
> 
> Also - I don't think we should make any massive changes without looking at
> some data. My initial suggestion was to explore some options, for us to
> consider. It would also make sense to look at some data. The handful of
> feedback from the hackday, is simply that, a handful. It'd be good to look
> at how many people click on the links Seamus is referring to as well as
> downloads and how many people land on the page and don't download.
> 
> Along the lines of these questions, do we have piwik setup and working? Or
> is that still being fixed?
> 
> Another aspect to consider for when we are doing trainings is to approach
> the downloading of the router image step differently. Especially in the
> classroom setting it might make more sense to have the files ready for use
> (on USB or local storage), rather than being dependent on access to the
> commotion website. One challenge I've noticed when we've done this in Red
> Hook (and at hackdays) is that we then put ourselves in a situation where
> everyone is downloading the same file at the same time, over somewhat
> limited networks the users/trainees and have a generally slow experience.
> 
> I vote - let's look at the data, decide the priority of this within the
> website overhaul, and think about what it means in the training context.
> 
> -Georgia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Seamus Tuohy <s2e at opentechinstitute.org>wrote:
> 
>> Commotion has been publicly advertised as a security and circumvention
>> tool. A warning that can be disregarded, or examines Commotions security
>> in terms of liability, or from the perspective of it simply as router
>> firmware disregards the social realities surrounding the tool.
>>
>> The Commotion warning label is an intervention. It uses global standards
>> for warning construction that were researched to cause exactly the
>> reaction we are seeing. This includes placement, size, color, and
>> language. Because it follows global standards users understand that it
>> is important and read the contents.
>>
>> I would argue that it does in fact help a user navigate the risks since
>> each warning is directly linked to an overview of the risk and tools
>> that the user can use instead, or on top of commotion, in order to
>> address risks that they are concerned about.
>>
>>
>> https://commotionwireless.net/understanding-commotions-warning-label#internet
>>
>>
>> Wireless risks and security are very rarely understood, let alone mesh
>> security and risks. With our placement as "circumvention technology" in
>> the public we have a responsibility to educate any possible user on the
>> current state of the Commotion platform for circumvention and security.
>>
>> Camouflaging the warning label below the fold, or in a color scheme that
>> is not immediately understood as a warning is in my opinion dishonest.
>> Until public opinion matches the current capabilities and safe use cases
>> of the Commotion platform I think that this intervention is the only
>> morally correct option. Safety should always trump style and comfort.
>>
>> s2e
>>
>>
>>
>> On 06/12/2013 02:38 PM, Ben West wrote:
>>> Along these lines of public perception, is Commotion perhaps the only
>>> embedded router firmware out there (compared to DD-WRT, Freifunk, and
>> other
>>> OpenWRT derivatives) that includes such warning language on its download
>>> page?
>>>
>>> If so, and if those other firmware distros are likewise capable of doing
>>> 90% to 100% of what Commotion does anyway (albeit with more user
>>> configuration effort needed), then I also agree with Ryan.  The warning
>> is
>>> not serving its intended purpose, and intimidating would-be users.
>>>
>>> Boilerplate about "no warranty given or implied / no liability for
>> damage"
>>> should likely be adequate.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Ryan Gerety
>>> <gerety at opentechinstitute.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree.  I would advocate for removing it--it looks like an error--and
>>>> also doesnt really help the user navigate the risks.  I agree with
>> Georgia
>>>> that Commotion's often inaccurate press requires us to be proactive
>> around
>>>> what it cant do (also most software should), but in the end the
>> security is
>>>> very similar to any router firmware.  In most browers the warning takes
>> up
>>>> most the page, so you cant even see the downloads.  I think a link or
>>>> button that says "Learn more about Security with Commotion" would be
>>>> sufficient, and then it can say, "as with most home wireless systems,
>> xxx."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 12, 2013, at 1:29 PM, Dan Staples wrote:
>>>>
>>>> @Georgia: I think trying some alternative displays of the warning label
>> on
>>>> the download page is definitely worth trying. However, I would just as
>> that
>>>> you clone the page and send us links to that instead of modifying the
>>>> actual download page until we've decided on any changes.
>>>>
>>>> In general, I think it's better to make users feel empowered than
>> scared.
>>>> It's already hard enough getting folks to adopt this technology. If
>> someone
>>>> is concerned about their security, they will likely take note of any
>>>> warning labels they see, even if it isn't quite the center of attention
>> of
>>>> the page. I think it's worth considering alterations to the page to make
>>>> the warning label lower down and/or somewhat smaller.
>>>>
>>>> On 06/12/2013 11:28 AM, Andrew Reynolds wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm moving this discussion to the commotion-discuss list.
>>>>
>>>> For those just joining in, the issue in question is how to present usage
>>>> warnings related to Commotion's current capabilities[1] in a way that
>>>> does not imply that the user has misconfigured the software.
>>>>
>>>> On one hand, we need to be very clear about Commotion's current
>>>> capabilities, especially given the press around the project. On the
>>>> other hand, we don't want to give the impression that a correct
>>>> installation has failed somehow.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Seehttps://
>> commotionwireless.net/blog/warning-label-development-part-1 andhttps://
>> commotionwireless.net/blog/warning-label-development-part-2
>>>>
>>>> -andrew
>>>>
>>>> On 06/12/2013 11:23 AM, Preston Rhea wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I maintain that when the first thing someone sees upon clicking a link
>>>> and landing is a warning - someone who isn't a l33t hacker - they will
>>>> think they have come to some page in error, and that creates the wrong
>>>> kind of caution. It can cause confusion and mistrust in one's ability
>>>> to follow the documentation, instead of invite caution about the
>>>> decision you're making to use this sofware.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Georgia Bullen<
>> georgia at opentechinstitute.org> <georgia at opentechinstitute.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I think there's a happy medium, which is maybe just a color change to
>> the
>>>> warning label? Or something like that? Pick one of the colors from the
>> color
>>>> palette?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Seamus Tuohy <
>> s2e at opentechinstitute.org> <s2e at opentechinstitute.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  That means it works! Seriously though, this is the intended effect. A
>>>> user should feel uneasy and read the warning when they are going to
>>>> download Commotion. Users in non-risky scenarios feeling uncomfortable
>>>> is a small price to pay for those at risk being confronted with the
>>>> limits of this tool.
>>>>
>>>> s2e
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 06/11/2013 04:39 PM, Preston Rhea wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Some of the feedback I got when walking folks through installation had
>>>> to do with the "WARNING" sign on the download site:
>> https://commotionwireless.net/download
>>>>
>>>>   A couple of folks said that when the first thing they see after
>>>> clicking according to the instructions
>>>>
>>>> (
>> https://code.commotionwireless.net/projects/commotion/wiki/Stock_Ubiquiti_Install_Guide
>> )
>>>> is a warning sign, they feel like they've done something wrong. When
>>>> we discussed the purpose of the warning label, they agree that it
>>>> should exist, but that it should be moved down below the initial fold
>>>> of the page - but before the download links - so that it still serves
>>>> its purpose without giving the user a feeling of having committed an
>>>> error, or having gone somewhere dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Preston Rhea
>>>> Program Associate, Open Technology Institute
>>>> New America Foundation+1-202-570-9770
>>>> Twitter: @prestonrhea
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   --
>>>> Georgia Bullen
>>>> Field Operations Technologist, Open Technology Institute
>>>> New America Foundation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commotion-discuss mailing listCommotion-discuss
>> @lists.chambana.nethttps://
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dan Staples
>>>>
>>>> Open Technology Institutehttps://commotionwireless.net
>>>>
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