[UCIMC-Tech] Re: [Imc-web] Re: [Imc-production] Steering Agenda Item: the IMC website

Thu Jan 29 17:37:41 CST 2009

I didn't take it that way either -and I'll only make one quick comment - I
was the person who advocated against the side bar where the "Local, Global
and Upcoming Events" feeds used to reside.  That was a long, narrow bar and
stories got lost if they were about 1/3 down the page.  I'm really happy
with how Josh changed this to the top - thank you.  But, I see Chris'
concern and perhaps we can shorten those top 3 items (like limiting to 4
bullet points, for example).  That way the feature stories are visible, but
we don't short-change the "Local, Global and Upcoming Events."

Nicole

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Stephen Fonzo <fonzo.stephen at gmail.com>wrote:

> Josh,
>
> I didn't take it that way at all, and in fact, I am glad that you shared
> your perspective and clarified these issues for us.  I often worry that the
> things I write sound angry, too - no worries.  I just don't want people at
> the IMC to think that it's your fault if the IMC site doesn't have
> everything they want.  It helps that Chris has outlined specific requests.
>
> -Stephen
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Josh King <josh at ucimc.org> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, this sounds kind of pissy now that I go back and read it. It's
>> really just a lot of tired, unconnected thoughts. In summary, I'm sorry that
>> the website isn't everything that it could be, I'm working on it, and I
>> should try harder to put systems in place to include others in the process.
>>
>>
>> On 01/29/2009 08:19 AM, Josh King wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Stephen, Chris,
>>>
>>> I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. First, I definitely want
>>> to expand the role of other people in the day-to-day administrative and
>>> monitoring aspects of the technical work at the IMC. It does, however,
>>> need to be done in a way that's more careful than giving a large pool of
>>> people root access. I can attest that even for someone like me that has
>>> spent a huge amount of time managing our systems and has the requisite
>>> skill set to design a large chunk of how everything fits together at the
>>> IMC, it's not too difficult to do something that screws up something big
>>> for everyone. The need for a careful, managed solution requires systems
>>> to be in place and structured in such a way as to allow that kind of
>>> careful management, and unfortunately putting those kinds of systems in
>>> place is one thing that I've spent a colossal amount of time on over the
>>> past year or so. I've started to reach out to certain people for them to
>>> help take over some day-to-day tasks, and this will happen even more as
>>> I continue to work on the IMC's websites and migrate the email server
>>> this weekend. But for Tech at least, it's going to be pulling a small
>>> number of people from an even smaller pool, as I don't currently have a
>>> lot of time for training people in server administration and web design,
>>> and so have to work with the people that I already know have the skills
>>>
>>> Chris, in response to your specific concerns, there was a problem this
>>> morning that Dan fixed where the partition on the offsite server where
>>> the website is stored filled up, and I'll be working with him to make
>>> sure it doesn't happen again. This may be why you had the problems
>>> you've had in 2, 4, and 5, as 2 and 5 I've never experienced. Featured
>>> stories should be at the top, except for the logo image, top menu, and
>>> the blocks "Local Interest," "Global Newswire," and "Upcoming Events,"
>>> which I placed up there in response to complaints that they were too
>>> difficult to find. It is true that there are bugs with the site,
>>> specifically one pertaining to uploading images and another with the
>>> WYSIWYG editor. I'm working on those and on a further redesign of the
>>> site, as the current version is a rough upgrade to improve performance
>>> and allow for anonymous commenting again, rather than an effort to
>>> significantly extend the functionality of the site as it existed before.
>>> It is true that there seems to be no "Home" link, though you can click
>>> on the logo image to return to the front page, and now that it's been
>>> pointed out I'll add one.
>>>
>>> It's clearly unacceptable for the IMC not to have a functional online
>>> publishing presence, especially if it's felt that the design and
>>> functionality of that presence is the main reason for lower traffic. I
>>> should probably have been more diligent about making sure that people
>>> interested in working on modifying the website get the shell access they
>>> require, but that's out of only 1 or 2 people who have asked. I'm not a
>>> great drupal developer, but since we're unlikely to have tons of drupal
>>> developers with lots of time on their hands popping out the woodwork,
>>> I'll try and set aside some of my other tasks and work between now and
>>> the next steering meeting on creating another potential redesign and
>>> improvement of the site to show.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking of implementing some kind of online to-do list for myself
>>> that people can submit to. My workload has gotten to the point where I
>>> can't always even keep track of all of the different things I have to
>>> do, and it might provide a more centralized way to keep track of things.
>>>
>>> I definitely agree with Stephen about the poor level of volunteerism in
>>> the more support or infrastructure oriented groups. Stephen and Nicole
>>> have done a great job of trying to foster that in the Production and
>>> Community Connections groups to some avail, me and Tech not so much.
>>> Partly this is just because if someone comes in and says they want to
>>> get involved doing Tech work, unless there's a specific project they
>>> already have in mind there's not a lot I can have them do without fairly
>>> extensive training. And just the fact that someone knows how to do
>>> something doesn't foster the trust that I need to have before I just
>>> hand over the keys to something that everyone in the IMC depends on. So
>>> I've been trying to come up with a better system of doing this, and I'm
>>> working on it, but it takes time.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'll try and fix up the website some more.
>>>
>>> On 01/29/2009 12:27 PM, Stephen Fonzo wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm forwarding this to Tech and Web - not to bother Josh with complaints
>>>> - but to let him know that others are thinking of ways to distribute his
>>>> volunteerism to others at the IMC.
>>>>
>>>> Josh has significantly improved the site from its former state, in my
>>>> opinion, though I agree with Chris that there are still problems with
>>>> posting and accessing content. We have two approaches to making further
>>>> improvements to the site or to other things at the IMC - a) keep saying,
>>>> "I don't know - ask Josh;" or b) figuring out ways to spread tasks and
>>>> knowledge so individuals can address needs as they arise.
>>>>
>>>> I believe the root problem is analogous to other working groups'
>>>> difficulties at the IMC, namely, that for many tasks, the volunteer body
>>>> of the IMC relies on one or two people. So for Tech and Web, it is
>>>> pretty much Josh, Dan, and Mike; for Shows and Production it is pretty
>>>> much me; for WRFU it is pretty much Noel; etc.
>>>>
>>>> Beyond everyone being strapped and focused heavily on keeping the
>>>> building, raising money, and paying bills (all too common non-profit
>>>> challenges), there are two reasons for these scenarios:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Volunteerism is generally weak at the IMC when it comes to anything
>>>> that is not directly activist (in other words, the media and tech
>>>> stuff). Books to Prisoners, Print, AWARE, Finance, and CUCPJ are all
>>>> strong, focus on business/specific agenda, and rally around issues and
>>>> deadlines. Perhaps the media/art-oriented groups need to learn from
>>>> these other groups (who happen to have an older, more serious and
>>>> experienced demographic, which is probably a factor). I will admit that
>>>> due to the presence of VISTAs and especially the development work of
>>>> Nicole, membership activity is indeed improving in some of the other
>>>> groups, and we are starting once more to provide more in the space
>>>> (Shows and Librarians are making great progress for such small groups
>>>> and for such spotty histories). Will this continue and are our members
>>>> aware?
>>>>
>>>> 2) Access, especially to Tech and Web infrastructure, is limited,
>>>> creating a cycle in which Josh or Dan are often the ONLY people to
>>>> contact about a given issue. As long as they are okay with this
>>>> arrangement, I don't think we need to change the way we work - after
>>>> all, I don't think Josh wants extra work by having to clean up messes
>>>> that others less qualified than himself make while doing things on the
>>>> server or databases. It is apparent that IMC members (myself included)
>>>> cannot do all the things that Josh or Dan do, when it comes to
>>>> web/internet work, but I don't know how much of that is due to our lack
>>>> of skills, lack of access/mutual training, or both. I know it's tricky,
>>>> because security is of top concern when dealing with technology. Access
>>>> is less of a problem with Shows, Production, and WRFU, but I still get
>>>> the impression that along with Web and Tech our work is considered
>>>> either too specialized, difficult, unimportant or undesirable for
>>>> volunteers to do - or even that we hold less clout or interest because
>>>> our work supports activism and artistry but is not directly activist or
>>>> artistic. This especially pains me when I am here to train and openly
>>>> offer tutoring to those who would clearly rather just have me, Nicole,
>>>> or someone else do the work.
>>>>
>>>> It is clear to me that we need to expand, even by a little, volunteerism
>>>> and access to active members that are deemed trustworthy. I acknowledge
>>>> that a lot of this will be difficult because it requires a shift in the
>>>> culture of the IMC, which I do not think is "unhealthy" as one member
>>>> said recently, but is perhaps stale at the moment. Josh, Nicole, and I
>>>> are here to increase the sustainability and capacity of the
>>>> organization(s) we work with, but I feel that there will be a vacuum if
>>>> any one of us leaves, and I am concerned that we (and others at the IMC)
>>>> are being relied upon rather than utilized. That would be fine if
>>>> everyone at the IMC received a salary or stipend, or had clearly defined
>>>> positions and authority, but it contradicts the consensus, volunteer,
>>>> anarchist structures touted by members who have been here longer.
>>>>
>>>> I detest argument for argument's sake, and I have not said any of this
>>>> to start a debate, to revel in exercising critical muscle, or to pretend
>>>> that I know any better than anyone else how to proceed from here. I want
>>>> to avoid the petty personal and intellectual politics that too often
>>>> constrain groups like ours and divert conversations to the theoretical,
>>>> and I merely make these suggestions so we can act practically upon them.
>>>> We need to think about sustainability through shared institutional
>>>> knowledge.
>>>>
>>>> -Stephen
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Christopher Evans
>>>> <caevans2 at hotmail.com <mailto:caevans2 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> By no means is this criticism of the IMC website intended to
>>>> criticize the excellent effort and contributions of Josh King, who
>>>> has worked very hard to maintain and upgrade the IMC's website.
>>>>
>>>> However, as one of the journalists who still regularly uses the
>>>> site, I have to make a few comments about my current experiences
>>>> with the site.
>>>>
>>>> 1) *hardly anyone ever posts* articles anymore, and hardly anyone
>>>> ever comments to the few articles that do get posted. Shortly after
>>>> the Brian Chesley articles posted by Brian Dolinar in March of 2008,
>>>> the comments to articles have dropped dramatically. It used to be
>>>> that a Brian Dolinar article could inspire 60 or more comments to an
>>>> article. The inability to post Annonymously may have affected that,
>>>> but even after the re-installment of Annonymous posting capability;
>>>> hardly a response is given to what people post.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The site has become *difficult to see the featured articles*.
>>>> They are not posted at the top of the page, but rather, are placed
>>>> at the bottom of the page after the long scroll of international
>>>> links to other IMC sites. To me, those links seem secondary for a
>>>> site that offers local stories.
>>>>
>>>> 3) there is no *"Home" link *to get you back to the original page
>>>> after you've navigated somewhere on the site.
>>>>
>>>> 4) the site is *unreliable*. This morning I was able to log on, but
>>>> when I tried to respond to a comment, even though I was able to type
>>>> in my text, the site would not upload it, and stayed in some kind of
>>>> holding pattern. Finally, I tried to start over and now I can't even
>>>> get to the IMC website.
>>>>
>>>> 5) there is *no side to side scroll bar *for the *calendar*. I can't
>>>> see what is happening on the weekends at the IMC.
>>>>
>>>> I know Josh has tons of other duties and I know he has been very
>>>> diligent in trying to improve the site for us. It's probably
>>>> unrealistic for us to expect one person has the time to do the daily
>>>> maintenance and designing of the site.
>>>>
>>>> I can only say that if the above is true for others, it might
>>>> explain why one of the most dynamic sites for local news has become
>>>> a silent graveyard for old articles.
>>>>
>>>> The IMC needs to decide if a website remains a viable avenue for
>>>> news reporting and local IMC announcements, and if so, we need to
>>>> make it as user-friendly as possible. If we have neither the time
>>>> nor inclination to maintain this site, I will form my own blog on
>>>> Illini Pundit and Smile Politely and assume that the tremendous
>>>> history of the IMC website from 2003-2008 is over.
>>>> thanks for listening to my rant.
>>>> On behalf of Local Yocal,
>>>> chris the building guy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Hotmail(R) goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See
>>>> how.
>>>> <
>>>> http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Stephen Fonzo
>>>> Media Training Advisor
>>>> AmeriCorps CTC VISTA
>>>> Urbana-Champaign Independent Media Center
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Josh King
>> --
>> "I am an Anarchist not because I believe Anarchism is the final goal, but
>> because there is no such thing as a final goal." -Rudolf Rocker
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Stephen Fonzo
> Media Training Advisor
> AmeriCorps CTC VISTA
> Urbana-Champaign Independent Media Center
>
> _______________________________________________
> IMC-Tech mailing list
> IMC-Tech at lists.ucimc.org
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>
>

-- 
Nicole Pion
Outreach and Development Adviser
AmeriCorps CTC VISTA
Urbana-Champaign Independent Media Center
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