No subject

contaminated  equipment from the battlefield and
shipped part of it back to the US and supervised the
burial of more equipment in Saudi Arabian deserts. He
was appointed head of the Depleted Uranium Project in
the Pentagon between 1 August 1994 and November 1995.
He also worked as a professor of nuclear physics at
Jackson University – Alabama until 2000.

Prof Rokke says he suffered the effects of depleted
uranium from the first week of the Gulf War in 1991
but did not realise it until March 1995. Tests showed
that he had 5000 times the normal level of radiation
in his body, enough he says sarcastically, to light up
a small village. He is also suffering from problems
with breathing, immune system and one eye. He has had
15 surgical operations to his liver as a result of his
infection by this uranium syndrome.

Q: At this very critical time, a lot of people are
trying to understand and know more about the weapons
containing depleted uranium which the United States
plans to use... Despite all the studies and research
that came up during the last period and confirmed the
risks of using the depleted uranium, officials at the
Pentagon announced that they are going to use depleted
uranium bombs in Iraq again. What is your
understanding of this announcement?

Professor Rokke: The announcement is very simple.
Uranium munitions kill and destroy everything that
they contact. Going back to the (1991) Gulf War and
even before, the Pentagon had decided to use weapons
that are absolutely efficient in combat. At the
completion of the 1991 Gulf War when I was
specifically assigned to clean up the uranium mess I
received a memorandum, this is a Los Alamos memorandum
written by a colonel at Los Alamos national
laboratories in Mexico. In that memorandum, he said
"Even though we know there are health and
environmental effects, you should make sure that we
can always use uranium munitions in combat because
they are so effective. And therefore lie about the
health and environmental effects of the use of uranium
munitions in combat."

The Presenter: Being the former chief of the depleted
uranium project in the Pentagon, what are the risks of
using depleted uranium on life and human beings in
general?

Professor Rokke: The first thing that we have to
understand is that each individual uranium round fired
by an  Abrams tank is ten pounds of solid uranium
contaminated with plutonium, neptunium and americium.
On impact, you have a fine uranium outside dust that
is generated. This represents about one half of the
original mass. So if you have 4500 grams, you have
about 2300 grams or 2200 grams that turn into a dust
on the outside, they can be inhaled .. and then get
into the body. When this happens, you have all kinds
of serious problems both metal poisoning and
radiological effects on the body.

The Presenter: Being one of the victims of depleted
uranium, can you describe the symptoms you felt when
you were infected?

Professor Rokke: The most significant effect that we
noticed was respiratory problems. And the respiratory
problems acted like you had a really bad case of
bronchitis. Your respiratory system was affected, you
couldn’t breathe as well and you started noticing all
kinds of serious apparatus effects with your breathing
system……The other health effect we saw immediately in
ourselves and everybody else was the terrible rash.
And the rash that we suspect and which we still have
to this day is from the heavy metal poisoning that
occurs just as if you would have eaten a litre of any
other heavy toxic metal.  

The Presenter: Dr. Rokke, What are the most important
symptoms of inhaling depleted uranium? 

Professor Rokke: The biggest problem that we had, in
addition to respiratory problems, is cancer which
developed in members of our team within eight to nine
months. Within two years, additional cancers developed
and people started to die. Individuals that we had
confirmed had embedded uranium shrapnel deliberately
locked in their bodies by the United States Department
of Defence did develop tumours in and around that
embedded shrapnel. Published research verifies that
uranium shrapnel or uranium embedded in the tissue
will cause cancer. That we see in any place that
uranium has been used, manufactured and  processed ….
in various areas of the United States. 

The Presenter: But Michael Kilpatrick, who was
responsible for providing medical care to the veterans
at the Pentagon, said in a press conference that a
study covering 90 infected veterans from the 1991 Gulf
War proved that they were not suffering from any
disease, whether it be cancer or otherwise. What do
you say about this? 

Professor Rokke: Dr. Kilpatrick lied to the world. It
is very simple. First he stated that 90 individuals
were affected ….. I had well over 100 individuals who
were affected. I had another 250 individuals who were
absolutely exposed while we were cleaning it  up. ………

The Presenter: Why did your colleagues in the Pentagon
lie and for the benefit of whom? 

Professor Rokke: The reason that they lie is to avoid
any liability for the deliberate use of uranium
munitions not only in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait,
throughout the Balkans and throughout all the sites in
the United States. Again the purpose of the war is to
kill and to destroy. Uranium munitions are absolutely
destructive. 

The Presenter: On 3 February 2003 an official from the
Veteran’s Association in Britain said that 560 British
soldiers have died since 1991 from Gulf War Syndrome
and that 5000 are under treatment. Do you have any
statistics on the number of wounded American soldiers?

Professor Rokke: Yes, I do. The US Department of 
Veterans’ Affairs released a report in September 2002.
In that report they formally acknowledged that there
are over 160,000 Gulf War veterans permanently
disabled and over 8000 dead from the effects of Gulf
War syndrome…It (Iraq) is a toxic wasteland that is
absolutely proven to exist today by additional
statistics.

 
The Presenter: What are the main diseases that can be
caused by uranium?

Professor Rokke: The problems that we have are very
significant. We have the respiratory problems, all the
eye problems, neurological problems, and cancers. What
we know today is that the American veterans who
participated in the 1991 Gulf War are dying at a rate
of over 140 a month here in the United States alone. 

The Presenter: You said that 36% of the veterans who
took part in the 1991 Gulf War will die because of
cancer and that 160,000 are handicapped and 8000 have
already died but still the US insists on using
uranium. Do you expect more cases of infection from
uranium?

Professor Rokke: Absolutely. We have already seen
additional casualties coming back. Although the war
ended in the fall of 1991, the US continued to send
troops to that region. Today we know, actually
verified by the United States Department of Veteran
Affairs that there are now over a quarter of a million
American soldiers who served during the Gulf War and
stayed in the region until May 2002 are now
permanently disabled due to complex exposures. And we
also now know that over 10,000 are dead and that the
current death rate is over a 140 a month.

The Presenter: What happened to the inhabitants of
Kuwait, Iraq and north of Saudi Arabia as a result of
the spread of 400 tonnes of uranium dust?

Professor Rokke: There is no doubt in my mind of
whatsoever that the health effects that we have seen
in the women, the children and other residents of that
region is absolutely due in part to the uranium
contamination that has been left there. Congressional
representatives and scientists, and independent
individuals from all over the world have gone over
there and verified the level of contamination and that
contamination has not been removed as required by US
Department of Defence directives.

The Presenter: Professor Harry Shalimer has said that
at least 100,000 of the inhabitants of Basra have been
infected with cancer since 1991. Do you have any
statistics on the number of infections in these
regions?

Professor Rokke: I have not been back to Iraq since
the 1991 Gulf War, but I have talked to Dr. Shalimer
and other scientists and physicians involved in this.
I have no doubt in my mind that Dr. Shalimer is
probably correct. I know for a fact that he has
verified uranium in those individuals residing in that
region and therefore you can make a direct correlation
between those exposures and the health effects that
have been documented. Dr. Shalimer again is one of the
world's experts on this, so we must listen to him. 

The Presenter: Do you have any information about the
uranium ammunition that the US is going to use in its
war against Iraq?

Professor Rokke: Absolutely…The uranium munitions that
will be used are again and once more the rounds that
will be fired by the Abrams tank. Each round is over
4500 grams of solid uranium contaminated with
plutonium, neptunium and americium. The A-10 Warthog
aircraft will additionally fire the 30ml round, that
is, each individual round is 300 grams of solid
uranium. We also know that the Bradley fighting
vehicle will fire the 25ml round, and each individual
round is over 200 grams of solid uranium. In addition,
cruise missiles contain uranium components, and the
giant bunker busters contain uranium components.

The Presenter: A weapons expert, Dai Williams, in one
of our programs said that the ammunition used by the
US in the 1991 Gulf War weighed around 5 kilograms,
and against Afghanistan they used bombs and ammunition
of up 10,000 pounds, and it is expected that they are
going to use the same ammunition in Iraq. They even
announced that the mother of bombs weighs 10,000
tonnes. If the previous Gulf War left around 400
tonnes of uranium dust, what do you expect will happen
to the region this time?

Professor Rokke: What I expect is that we will again
see serious health effects in the American soldiers
who go there and use it. We will see health effects in
all the residents of that region. We will see health
effects in the Iraqi soldiers who will be the targets
of direct uranium used by US forces. I must repeat and
make this very clear, as the head of the project to
clean up uranium munitions during the 1991 Gulf War,
and as the director of the Depleted Uranium Project
for the Department of Defence who did the research,
and as a DU casualty, the use of uranium munitions
during warfare is a crime against God, is a crime
against humanity, and should be considered a war
crime. You cannot take solid uranium radioactive
waste, throw it in anybody's backyard and refuse to
provide medical care and complete the environmental
clean-up that is required to sustain the health and
safety of the citizens of the earth.

The Presenter: Do you think depleted uranium is
considered a weapon of mass destruction or a nuclear
weapon?

Professor Rokke: The United Nations on 10 September
2001 did rule that uranium munitions were considered a
weapon of mass destruction. The European Parliament
has issued a proclamation that uranium munitions
should be banned from use in the world. 

The Presenter: Do you think that using depleted
uranium against human beings in general falls under
the category of crimes of war?

Professor Rokke: Absolutely, because in the United
States you cannot even take 500 grams of solid uranium
and throw it in anybody's backyard without going to
jail. Therefore, what right has the United States,
England or any other nation has to take hundreds and
hundreds of tons of uranium and throw them in somebody
else's backyard, refuse them medical care as they have
done now for decades and also refuse to clean up the
environment.

The Presenter: Professor Dracovic said that the
cleaning of the region needs $200 billion. Is it
possible to clean up the region (if this fund is
raised)?

Professor Rokke: The problem that we have, when I
actually did the research, was to determine how to
clean up. For each and every vehicle that is struck by
a single uranium munition you have to take that entire
vehicle, and physically remove it. Then you have to
clean up all the uranium penetration that is left
around that vehicle. Then you have to take a
bulldozer, and go out to at least 100 metres and
scrape down at least 10 centimetres and remove all of
that dirt in order to make that area safe again, that
is for each and every vehicle. 

The Presenter: If Baghdad is being struck by such
ammunition, how far will the effects of such uranium
impact the surrounding areas of Baghdad?

Professor Rokke: Studies in the United States by one
of the former scientists in this area measuring the
uranium contamination from a production plant in the
United States showed that the uranium contamination
has caused adverse health effects within 50
kilometres. 

The Presenter: This is around the plant itself, what
about the dust and the wind?

Professor Rokke: The wind carried the uranium dust 50
kilometres away from the plant and there were
sufficient quantities to cause adverse health effects.
We know today that in and around all the production
facilities where they are making uranium munitions
there are cancers, kidney problems, respiratory
problems, rations, neurological problems in the
residents of that area.        

The Presenter: Some studies say that in the areas
affected in the Balkans, uranium dust travelled more
than 1000 kilometres and reached a lot of European
capitals. Do you think that Kuwaitis, Saudis, Iraqis
and Jordanians are safe from the uranium dust that
Iraq might be hit with?

Professor Rokke: You have the whole combination of
by-products of the war. When we destroy the
infrastructure of Iraq…when we deliberately use
uranium munitions and contaminate the air, water and
soil, the entire region becomes a toxic wasteland. And
again the reason that we know that it is a toxic
wasteland today is that since 1991, the United States
has continued to send American soldiers into the
region. Since 1991, an additional 60,000 American
veterans have been labelled as permanently disabled
from this exposure and another 3000 have been
confirmed dead. 

The Presenter: How long can these areas remain
contaminated?

Professor Rokke: The contamination will remain in the
area unless it is physically and totally removed, for
4.5 billion years and beyond. 

The Presenter: Will these areas remain contaminated
for 4.5 billion years? 

Professor Rokke: Unless it is physically removed
according to the procedures and  processes that I have
developed for the US Department of Defence. 

The Presenter: Those contaminated areas, are they fit
for human life now?

Professor Rokke: They are not. The US Department of
Defence, in the common test training for use of
uranium munitions, specifically states that all
American soldiers must wear full respirator and skin
protection within 25 to 50 metres of each and every
vehicle that is struck by uranium munitions. 

The Presenter: Having supervised the burial of some of
the waste in 1991, how true is that some of the areas
north of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are no longer fit for
human habitation, and that people should be prevented
from going into these areas?

Professor Rokke: Absolutely. The entire…area near
Basra, the contamination there is absolutely verified.
US Congressmen, James McDermott and his staff went
over to Iraq in the fall of last year. They measured
the contamination and verified that it was so great
that people should be prevented from entering that
area permanently until all of it is cleaned up. 

The Presenter: Also, the region that could be hit by
uranium ammunition, whether Baghdad or other Iraqi
cities, would they be contaminated also, and the
contamination there will be for 4.5 billion years
again?

Professor Rokke: Absolutely…

The Presenter: Is it possible that Baghdad, Basra and
other cities will be unfit for human life after this
war?

Professor Rokke: If you destroy the entire
infrastructure ….. and if Iraq does possess any
chemical, biological or radioactive materials and you
destroy them, that would be just like hitting an ice
cube with a hammer. All you do is split it. If you use
uranium munitions and you do not clean it up, the
entire area will be a toxic wasteland, that unless all
environmental clean-up is completed will be
uninhabitable. 

 

The Presenter: This means that there are more than
20million human beings in Iraq who are subject to
being hit by uranium, and if Iraq will be hit by
uranium munitions it will be unfit for human
habitation. Does this mean that the United states will
eliminate a total country from the surface of the
earth?

Professor Rokke: That is an absolute possibility. When
you destroy the infrastructure, you use all the types
of munitions and you contaminate air, water and soil.
That is an absolute possibility…

The Presenter: Can simple human beings who are living
in Iraq, and who have nothing to do and are helpless,
can they do anything against the United States, which
will not hesitate to use uranium against them?

Professor Rokke: For years, as the individual that
cleaned up uranium munitions in the 1991 Gulf War, and
as the director of the Depleted Uranium Project, I
have requested and I have insisted that the United
States and other countries refrain from using uranium
munitions in combat. Uranium munitions must be banned
from use on earth and in the universe for eternity. At
the same time, I have requested numerous times that
medical care be provided not only for the fired
casualties on my staff, but for thousands and
thousands of individuals who have been exposed. And I
have also requested numerous times that all uranium
contamination be cleaned up. However, those requests
have been denied, denied, and denied…..

The Presenter: Since you stayed in the region until
1996 and supervised a lot of activities and you know
the contaminated areas, is it possible to give us a
list of contaminated areas in Saudi Arabia, Iraq and
Kuwait…?

Professor Rokke: One of the problems we have is that
the United States Department of Defence has not
identified all the areas where uranium munitions have
been used. So therefore, individuals who reside in
that area must look for the … signature of uranium
munitions use. 

On a destroyed vehicle you will see a clean round hole
around the area. You will also see black dust
surrounding the area. Any vehicle or structure that
you see that has this signature you should not
approach within 100 metres unless you are wearing full
skin and respiratory protection. 

The Presenter: What are the symptoms so that if they
appear on the inhabitants of those areas they can tell
they have been exposed?  

Professor Rokke: The first symptom that will show up
….. will be the respiratory problems. It acts like a
chronic bronchitis. The second thing that you will
probably see is the rashes. 

The Presenter: The infections that showed up in the
south of Iraq and the deformities in the newborn, do
you expect these to last for 4.5 billion years? Is
there a possibility that in the future generations
more complications will come up?

Professor Rokke: Absolutely… Again as along as
individuals are being exposed to uranium, we know that
the changes in the RNA in DNA, the changes that occur
genetically are causing all of these birth effects. We
have seen those birth effects in American soldiers who
were exposed. We are seeing those birth effects all
over the world where uranium exposures have occurred. 

The Presenter: Can the insistence of the United States
to use this ammunition again against human beings and
against Iraq be considered a new war crime?

Professor Rokke: Anybody who uses uranium munitions in
war must understand that it is a crime against God and
it is a crime against humanity… Yes, it is. When you
deliberately and wilfully spread radioactive waste,
ignore the health effects and refuse to clean it up,
that is a crime against God and a crime against
humanity. 

The Presenter: What do you think the size of the
disaster that will result from using hundreds of
tonnes of uranium in the war against Iraq? If this is
the picture given for the past 10 years, what will be
from the result on the region of using uranium again?

Professor Rokke: If we have the same exposures and we
have extensive use we can estimate that the number of
casualties and the percentage of people in the
area…that is going to be 30% again. That is the
numbers, we cannot change the statistics. We cannot
change the epidemiological  effects of all of the
contaminations that results from war. 

 

 


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