[Peace-discuss] Re: [UCprogressives] Re: Pro-choice [wasRe: letterto my former comrades]

[Carl Estabrook]

I'm quite aware that "MANY REASONABLE people disagree," Ken; that's why I
agree with you that "We need to DEBATE the issue and CONVINCE people..."
But, altho' I'm a democrat, I don't think truth -- philosophical, ethical,
or political -- is established by a show of hands. You may just be more
optimistic than I, but I'm afraid I've seen too many cases where many
reasonable people think it's ok to do things that I think are quite wrong
-- invading Iraq, electing George Bush, etc.  And I don't think we can
relax into the opinion that such people are simply unreasonable or stupid,
altho' I do think they're badly mistaken and often misled.

The examples of AIDS and typhoid were simply meant to reject the position
that the government should not "have the power to force you to make any
medical decision at all."  And of course I agree, as most of our national
leaders would, that "Government needs to consider the diversity of
opinions when making decisions"; that's one of the things that brought the
Vietnamese war to an end.  Another reason to debate the issue and convince
people...

Regards, Carl, who probably should, too.


On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Ken Urban wrote:

> Carl,
>
> Your agreement refuses to accept that MANY REASONABLE people disagree.
> Can you find MANY REASONABLE individuals who think it's ok to kill
> Vietnamese for no reason, or knowingly spread AIDS or typhoid?
>
> Although I am anti-meat, there are MANY REASONABLE people who disagree
> with me.  Although I am anti-all-guns, there are MANY REASONABLE people
> who disagree.  I don't think that MANY REASONABLE people agree that
> machine guns are needed.
>
> Government needs to consider the diversity of opinions when making
> policy.
>
> Ken "who should be doing other things" Urban
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Ken Urban
> Assoc. Prof., Computer Science
> Parkland College
>
> Office: B129A
>            (217)-353-2246
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> >>> Carl Estabrook <cge at shout.net> 11/16/2004 1:26:25 PM >>>
> I don't think you can be absolutist about the matter, Esther.
> Certainly
> it's wrong to conclude that the government should never "have the power
> to
> force you to make any medical decision at all" -- regarding the spread
> of
> communicable disease, for example. The question is, of course, What
> "personal, moral decisions" are matters of public policy, but some
> surely
> are -- forcing a typhoid carrier to be treated, say, or criminalizing
> the
> knowing spread of AIDS.
>
> It's hard to see how the ending of human life should fall outside the
> purview of government, so most of those who hold abortion to be
> ethical
> deny that that's what abortion does.
>
> Regards, Carl
>
>
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Esther Patt wrote:
>
> > Should the government have the power to force you to make a medical
> > decision that threatens your life?  Should the government have the
> power
> > to force you to make a medical decision that threatens your health?
> > Should the government have the power to force you to make any
> medical
> > decision at all?  Folks who oppose abortion because of their
> religious
> > or personal moral beliefs often confuse, as Carl does, a personal,
> moral
> > decision with the question of public policy.
> >
> > Carl may believe that a woman should be willing to die, lose a
> kidney,
> > undergo major surgery, increase her risk of stroke, or any number of
> > other risks rather than stop a zygote or embryo from developing into
> a
> > fetus and ultimately a baby.  If he were the one who was pregnant, I
> > would support fully his right to make that decision without
> government
> > interference.
> >
> > The public policy question is whether government should force every
> > woman who becomes pregnant to carry to term because some people
> believe
> > that a zygote is a human being.  Most people in the U.S. are
> pro-choice
> > because they do not want government to have that power.  Esther Patt
> > Proud to be Pro-Choice
> >
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