[Peace-discuss] Response to Nader interview

Fri Oct 8 08:55:46 CDT 2004

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ken Urban
Assoc. Prof., Computer Science
Parkland College

Office: B129A
           (217)-353-2246
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> <jencart at mailstation.com> 10/07/04 4:51 PM >>>
>It's my recollection that the Green Party/Cobb is telling people in
swing states to vote
>for Kerry.  

Actually, they said 'vote your conscience'.  If your conscience allows
you to vote for either pro-war, anti-labor candidate, by all means, go
ahead.  

>If Nader sez he doesn't "get it" he's a liar, stupid beyond belief,or a
total
>meglomaniac.

You need to separate personality from policy, otherwise you, like the
rest of the electorate will vote for Bush, who is, to quote Molly Ivans,
'quite likeable'.   I'm surprised no one has commented on Nader's suits
yet, since you seem to prefer ad hominem attacks. 

>Geo Bush wouldn't be in ofc, the Iraq war wouldn't have happened, maybe
9ll 
>wouldn't have happened w/ approp attn to intelligence/terrorists,
rather than 
>fixation on Iraq to exclusion of all else, had Nader not thrown the
2000 election 
>to Bush.  

I picture the scene in Fahrenheit 911 when the Black Congressional
Caucus members, protested the election one by one, but no Democratic
senator would sign on.  Maybe if Kerry and the rest of the Democrats
hadn't voted for the war, we wouldn't be having it.  They are as
culpable as Bush.

>The election is close everywhere, may be no safe states.  So if you
want another 
>4 years of Bush, cast yr vote for either Kerry or Bush, it pretty much
comes down 
>to the same thing.    Jenifer C. 

4 more years of corporate rule.

The political system we have is severely broken;  voting for Kerry or
Bush will not fix it.  Arguing against third parties means that you not
only want the system of corporate rule to continue, but are actively
working to increase poverty and war in this world.  

Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Cotton <recotton at earthlink.net><~!B*+R^&>Sent: Oct 7, 2004
8:46 AM
To: peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Response to Nader interview

For what it's worth, I just checked with "Debbie" at the Champaign
County
Clerk's office and I was told that while it's possible to write in a
candidate for president, it's not even counted unless that person files
for
write-in candidacy with the County. There are two people who've done
this
(didn't recognize them), but Nader hasn't so far (neither has Cobb, for
that
matter). On a separate call to "Rhonda", I verified it's still possible
to
file for write-in candidacy (deadline is October 26th, one week before
the
election), so maybe Nader will do that. But if he doesn't file, writing
him
in will be pointless - it won't even be recorded and will have precisely
the
same effect as if you had not voted for president at all.

R

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morton K.Brussel" <brussel4 at insightbb.com><~!B*+R^&>To:
<peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com><~!B*+R^&>Sent: Wednesday, October
06, 2004 10:27 PM
Subject: [Peace-discuss] Response to Nader interview

[Apropos of my previous comment and after listening to a bitter and ego
ridden Nader on Democracy Now! yesterday, I append the following
article for your consideration. mkb]

Published on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 by CommonDreams.org

  It?s All About Bush
by John Stauber

Ralph Nader has been publicly complaining because the overwhelming
majority of those of us whom he asked to be his formal endorsers in
2000 have united this year to support John Kerry in swing states.

  A list of the seventy-five Nader 2000 Citizens Committee members now
urging support for Kerry is online at our website  . It includes
Barbara Ehrenreich, Phil Donahue, Jim Hightower, Susan Sarandon, Noam
Chomsky, Ben Cohen, Peter Coyote, Granny D, Manning Marable, Bonnie
Raitt, Tim Robbins, Studs Terkel, Rabbi Michael Lerner, Eddie Vedder,
Cornel West and Howard Zinn.

  In an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now Nader dismissed us
as having suffered ?a total loss of nerve.? In the past he?s called us
?scared liberals.? Sorry Ralph, but the reality is that this election
is a referendum on George Bush. In the real world the only way to dump
Bush is to mobilize voters for Kerry in swing states, and that is our
goal. Other than John Kerry, Ralph Nader could do the most to defeat
Bush if he were willing to help lead a united front against him, but he
is not.

  We who were the Nader 2000 Citizens Committee obviously have huge
disagreements with Kerry on Iraq and other issues. But this election is
not about Ralph Nader or John Kerry, it?s about getting rid of George
Bush and ending the far-right domination of all branches of the federal
government.

  The world changed after 9/11 when the Bush administration exploited
that horrific attack for political and ideological purposes, using it
as an opportunity to launch an unjustified and frankly stupid
first-strike war against Iraq. Sheldon Rampton and I have documented in
our books ?Banana Republicans? and ?Weapons of Mass Deception? how the
Bush administration has set a tone and enacted measures undermining our
liberties. Bush and Cheney are pursuing a reckless and deadly foreign
policy of war and empire that has turned the world?s outpouring of
sympathy after 9/11 into a deep fear and loathing of America.

  Much of the leadership of the Democratic Party ? including Kerry and
Edwards ? rubber stamped the actions of the Republicans in going to war
in Iraq and in undermining civil liberties. Led by the right-wing media
echo chamber at Fox TV and on talk radio, the mainstream corporate
media became cheerleaders for Bush?s war on Iraq. The Republicans
brilliantly used their march to war to win control of both houses of
the Congress in 2002. For the first time since 1932 the Republicans now
control the Supreme Court, the Congress, the Senate and the White
House. They also control most governorships and state legislatures.

  Those of us who were Ralph Nader?s official endorsers in 2000 have no
illusions about John Kerry, the Democratic Party, or our need to
mobilize and organize for fundamental social and political change here
in the United States. We believe that the first step to progressive
change is uniting to defeat George Bush and Dick Cheney. On November
2nd we Americans will have our only opportunity to remove Bush from
office. If we fail to stop Bush, we will send a loud message around the
world that the American people support and ratify what the Bush regime
has done. November 2nd is people?s impeachment day in America and the
choice is simple. The only vote that will work to remove George Bush is
a vote for John Kerry in battleground states.

  Ralph Nader made a strategic mistake in running this year for
president. To date he has primarily divided green voters and spent most
of his time and energy attacking Democrats or his former allies. I
spoke with Ralph a year ago and asked him not to run but rather to lead
a movement to defeat Bush and end Republican domination by supporting
the Democratic nominee. He replied, "If I did that, they would ignore
me. I would get no attention."

  Ralph Nader denies that his candidacy helps Bush, but Republicans,
Democrats and most political analysts agree that it does. The October
4, 2004 Zogby poll concluded ?there is little doubt that Ralph Nader is
hurting Kerry.? It is true that Democratic party leaders are conducting
a widespread and often unethical campaign to keep Nader off state
ballots. This ham-fisted effort led by former Monsanto executive and
lobbyist Toby Moffett has gained the Nader candidacy sympathy in the
press and bolstered the resolve of Nader supporters to vote for Ralph.

  The situation will no doubt get uglier as the election nears and Ralph
Nader and the Green Party candidate David Cobb stump for votes in swing
states. It is important that we keep one goal in sight, rejecting
George Bush. I urge everyone who like me lives in a battleground state
to help defeat of George Bush by pulling the lever for John Kerry.

  John Stauber (info at vote2stopbush.org) is a co-founder of
http://www.vote2stopbush.org/ and the co-author of five books including
Banana Republicans, Weapons of Mass Deception, Mad Cow USA and Toxic
Sludge is Good For You. These are his personal views and not those of
any organization with which he is affiliated.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

: _______________________________________________
: Peace-discuss mailing list
: Peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com
: http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
:

_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com
http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss

_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com
http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss