[Peace-discuss] Fwd: Street / Campaign and Debate Reflections

[C. G. Estabrook]

I apparently failed to make myself clear, Phil: I was condemning Street's
racist slur of the Nader campaign, which he (Street) is unwilling
apparently to make directly, so he puts it in the mouth of an (unnamed)
"African-American leftist," whom *Street* quotes with non-standard
language, apparently to show his witness' bona fides.  That's patronizing,
and perhaps racist. By using "down with the people" (an inventive use of
language, with a black origin, which I rather like) I meant to mock
Street's displacement of his charge to a presumably privileged witness, an
"organic leftist"...

BTW, when I was in college and first thought of doing radio, I was told
I'd be considered "only if I removed the regionalisms from [my] speech."
(I grew up in Virginia.)  Naturally, I told them I ain't gonna...

Best, Carl


On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Phil Stinard wrote:

> I'm going to call Carl on the carpet for a rather careless, racist comment.  
> Carl makes a parenthetical reference to "a 'leftist' who says 'gonna' and 
> 'ain't' -- undoubtedly a sign that s/he's down with the people".  As someone 
> who grew up in southwest Iowa, in a school system where NONE of the students 
> and teachers were "down with the people," I find the linking of the words 
> "ain't" and "gonna" to "the people," by which I assume that Carl means 
> African-Americans, to be simply racist.  All of my classmates as I was 
> growing up were as white as they come, and vast numbers of them used the 
> words "gonna" and "ain't," especially in spoken conversation.  It was one of 
> the banes of our teacher's existence.  She was always trying to improve the 
> students' English grammar, with little success.  Even in my case, I still 
> say "gonna," although I've purged "ain't" from my spoken vocabulary.  My 
> brother, a well-educated man with a Ph.D. in education, still says "ain't" 
> sometimes.  And if you go down to a local bar, you'll see plenty of white 
> people saying "gonna" and "ain't."  So, to carelessly and gratuitously imply 
> that people who use "gonna" and "ain't" are "down with the people" (thinly 
> veiled reference to  African-Americans, or perhaps to someone who panders to 
> African-Americans--another stupid assumption), is racist.  You could make 
> the rather weak argument that the person is illiterate (see above reference 
> to brother with Ph.D. in education), but to imply that he or she MUST be 
> African-American because he or she uses what you consider to be defective 
> language is racist.  So-called intellectuals often use these kinds of 
> off-handed comments to make themselves feel superior, but it adds nothing to 
> their argument, and just makes them look foolish.  I'm guilty of it too, 
> sometimes, but I make heroic efforts to catch myself.  Language is often 
> used as a weapon to belittle, hurt, and minimize others.  Don't fall into 
> that trap.
> 
> --Phil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:13:53 -0500
> >From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>
> >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fwd: Street / Campaign and Debate
> >	Reflections	/ Oct 17
> >To: Peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com
> >Message-ID:
> >	<Pine.SGI.4.10.10410181044100.85018-100000 at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>
> >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> >[A generally good commentary, I think, Mort -- it starts strong, and it's
> >certainly correct that the differences between the Bonesmen, such as they
> >are, lie in domestic, not foreign policy.  But the paragraph I've
> >excerpted below could come from those Alexander Cockburn describes as "The
> >older crowd [who] hate Bush ... but they hate Nader more." Attributing a
> >"racial problem" to Nader (quoting a "leftist" who says "gonna" and
> >"ain't" -- undoubtedly a sign that s/he's down with the people), which the
> >liberal Kerry is supposedly free of, is simply McCarthyism.  --CGE]
> >
> >Alex Cockburn, writing of the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley, 40 years
> >ago:
> >
> >...Flowers of the sixties, now gone sadly to seed, have been coursing
> >round the nation's courthouses, challenging Nader's efforts to get on
> >state ballots. The older crowd hate Bush, that's for sure. But they hate
> >Nader more. So here was the great irony. Most of those mistily honoring
> >the FSM don't much care for free speech when it looks as though it might
> >be risky, might inconvenience their favored candidate, even though the
> >favored candidate, John Kerry, wants to fight a better war than Bush in
> >Iraq and then march on to Teheran.
> >
> >In fact the original FSM movement was a much bigger tent than people now
> >recall. My old friend Conn Hallinan, who was an FSM militant and arrested
> >in Sproul Hall in the largest mass university arrests (800) in the history
> >of the US, has just reminded me of this. Hallinan says, "We had right
> >wingers, libertarians, conservatives and of course weirdos. There was an
> >FSM activist, who went on to successfully challenge the law forbidding
> >women to hang off the side of cable cars in San Francisco. She was a
> >right-wing libertarian."
> >
> >These days the left and PC crowd would find that the woman was opposed to
> >affirmative action, or some such, and would have driven her out with oaths
> >and curses. They have no idea of tactical coalitions. So much for the
> >heritage of Sixties radicalism. Not everyone's gone to seed, to be sure.
> >There's Lenni, who finally got me off the chair and actually there are
> >many, many more who understand the importance of the third word that comes
> >after Free Speech, namely "Movement". Without a movement you have nothing,
> >and you've built nothing. That's what the ABB "leftists" don't understand
> >now. November 3 will be a bit late in the day to start looking for one.
> >
> >It's the long-term movements that count, the ones that don't sell out
> >every four years, to support someone like Kerry who wants to widen the war
> >in Iraq and then go and burn down Teheran. These days many communities
> >campuses have pro Palestinian groups on them. There were almost none
> >thirty years ago. That's a real Free Speech Movement, and one that has
> >made a difference and will make a difference long after this campaign is
> >over.
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Morton K.Brussel wrote:
> >
> > > We're all by now weary of long commentaries repeating common themes,
> > > but I particularly admired this one by the clear headed, passionate and
> > > compassionate Paul Street. It appears on ZNET, which can use your
> > > support (http://www.zmag.org) as a subscriber.
> > > MKB
> > > > ...
> > > > And the notion of some people on the left not caring if he returns is
> > > > beneath contempt. I recently read one my fellow radicals saying that
> > > > "things will be bad under Kerry and things will be bad under Bush."
> > > > Ho-hum.  Oh well. Whatever.  I know what the radical means, of course:
> > > > capitalism sucks but take that message to the black community and see
> > > > what kind of response you get, comrade.   An African-American leftist
> > > > recently wrote me to mention the "calllous indifference" of some of
> > > > "the Nader crowd"  to "a significant constituency that they hope to
> > > > appeal to:" Blacks.  This cold disregard, this leftist feels,
> > > > "denote[s] a racial problem that these people are gonna have to deal
> > > > with at some point. Non-leftist black, brown, asian, etc. folk ain't
> > > > impressed with such disregard."  Good point...
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.cu.groogroo.com
> http://lists.cu.groogroo.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>