[Peace-discuss] some protests we can't support

[C. G. Estabrook]

I'm not sure these folks are protesting the war: they seem to
be celebrating it as a proper punishment of a military that 
doesn't condemn homosexuality vigorously enough for them.

The casual mention of Frisby v. Schultz is a bit chilling.  A
clever use of the "right of privacy" seems to have led the SC
in 1988 to uphold "an ordinance in a Milwaukee suburb that
prohibited picketing outside an individual residence because
it invaded the privacy of a home."

If I wanted to control political speech in this country even
more, I'd work on that line.  E.g., our pictures of war dead
offend the right of privacy twice -- that of the dead and of
those who are forced to see them...  --CGE


---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:55:06 -0800 (PST)
>From: Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>  
>Subject: [Peace-discuss] some protests we can't support  
>To: peace discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>
>Hey folks-
>
>I'm posting this mainly because I talked to a few
>folks recently who hadn't heard about it.  So now you
>know.  But in the spirit of respecting an old request
>that we not simply post articles without comment, but
>add something about their relevance:
>
>Here's a good example of why we can't support everyone
>who criticizes the war (duh!).  Of course these
>lunatics appear to be focussed on attacking the
>soldiers themselves, regardless of who they are and
>what they do -- which we also don't support anyway --
>but it seems they generalize their point (such as it
>is) to the whole war effort by some twisted logic. 
>The war is in defense of gay people, or some such
>nonsense.
>
>I suppose AWARE folks may differ on whether it's okay
>to require these maniacs to back off 300 ft from the
>church or whatever -- and I can certainly see a
>slippery slope there -- but I think we can all agree
>that what they are doing is disgusting and ludicrous. 
>I'd argue they're practically insane, but I probably
>won't get too much agreement on that one.
>
>Anyway, here's one article on it, published before the
>funeral, in case more folks hadn't heard...
>
>-Ricky
>
>
>Copyright 2005 St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Inc.
>St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Missouri)
>
>December 9, 2005 Friday
>THIRD EDITION
>
>SECTION: NEWS; Pg. A1
>
>LENGTH: 1016 words
>
>HEADLINE: Anti-gay protesters target small-town
>soldier's funeral
>
>BYLINE: By Adam Jadhav ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
>
>BODY:
>
>
>The fire-breathing, staunchly anti-gay Rev. Fred
>Phelps Sr. will make a few more enemies this weekend.
>Truth be told, he's not really concerned.
>
>The list of people who hate the preacher from Topeka,
>Kan., is already long, as is the list of those whom he
>condemns.
>
>Phelps has lambasted journalists, lawyers, nearly all
>churches, the general public and even Presidents
>George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. Now officials in
>Illinois and Missouri have him in their sights with
>proposals to ban Phelps' favorite tactic: vitriolic
>anti-gay protests at military funerals.
>
>The 76-year-old Phelps, an ordained minister and
>father of 13, has headed the Westboro Baptist Church
>in Topeka since 1955 but is almost universally written
>off by mainstream religious organizations.
>
>Westboro Baptist Church members have picketed the
>funerals of homosexuals for nearly 15 years. In search
>of more publicity, they've taken their protests in
>recent months to nearly 70 military services.
>
>Just like the one this Saturday, when about a dozen
>church members will head to the small Illinois town of
>Virden, 80 miles northeast of St. Louis, for the
>memorial service for Staff Sgt. Gary Harper, a local
>boy, high school football player and Army medic killed
>in October in Iraq.
>
>At the funerals, Phelps' followers carry signs bearing
>the church's hallmark slogans: "God Hates Fags," "AIDS
>Cures Fags" and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" among
>others.
>
>Phelps and his followers have no qualms using words
>that many find offensive. The church adheres to a
>strict, literal interpretation of the Bible and relies
>on verses that paint a picture of an angry God who
>condemns homosexuals to hell.
>
>Many question his logic, but Phelps protests
>homosexuality by proclaiming the deaths of soldiers as
>holy retribution against "a fag army -- don't ask,
>don't tell -- for a fag-loving agenda of a fag-loving
>nation," Phelps said in an interview Wednesday.
>
>Because of that kind of language, Virden police plan a
>show of force at the memorial Saturday, backed up by
>Illinois State Police and the Macoupin County
>Sheriff's Department. They hope their presence will
>stave off potential violence.
>
>Other officials also want to take action. On Dec. 1,
>Missouri Senate Majority Leader Charlie Shields, R-St.
>Joseph, proposed legislation that would ban protesting
>"in front of or about any church, cemetery or funeral
>establishments" from one hour before to one hour after
>a funeral.
>
>And this week, Illinois Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn proposed
>prohibiting such picketing from within 300 feet a
>half-hour before to a half-hour after any funeral.
>
>"Those last moments a family has with their son, those
>ought to be opportunities that aren't interfered with,
>that aren't harassed, that aren't destroyed and
>disrupted by a group that is seeking to do exactly
>that, to be cruel," said Quinn, who attends the
>funerals of most Illinois soldiers.
>
>Similar laws have been proposed at the city, county
>and state level around the nation. Indiana and
>Oklahoma are considering measures; Phelp's own state
>of Kansas already has one.
>
>Officials admit they have Phelps in mind, but they say
>they're less interested in curtailing speech and more
>concerned about people like Linda Morrison, the mother
>of Gary Harper, who will face Phelps' followers
>Saturday in Virden.
>
>Morrison declined to comment beyond dismissing the
>protests. "They can do what they want. I'm not going
>to waste any time on Phelps," Morrison said. "It's
>their right. It's what Gary died serving" -- referring
>to the right to protest.
>
>Court battle is likely
>
>The proposed legislation is likely to set up a First
>Amendment battle. Though courts have long upheld
>limited rights of government to restrict the time,
>place and manner of speech, barring protest in a
>public place such as a sidewalk is thorny. And Phelps
>has already promised a court challenge.
>
>A controlling U.S. Supreme Court case, Frisby v.
>Schultz, in 1988 upheld an ordinance in a Milwaukee
>suburb that prohibited picketing outside an individual
>residence because it invaded the privacy of a home.
>But the court hinted that restrictions beyond that are
>less likely to be constitutional.
>
>Phelps' followers have routinely been attacked
>verbally and have had eggs thrown at them at some
>protests. And since August, members of the Patriot
>Guard Riders, a national motorcycle group that
>attempts to shield grieving families, have followed
>Phelps to military funerals in a counterprotest.
>
>With the contingent of motorcyclists, a color guard or
>21-gun salute, military funerals can evolve into a
>public display, Phelps argues. He said if a family
>wished a private ceremony with little pomp and
>circumstance, his group would stay away.
>
>"They turn it into an epic to promote the
>administration's side of the war. They'll have
>flag-waving patriots, proclaiming him a hero," Phelps
>said. "Our view of this situation is that God Almighty
>blew these kids to smithereens and sent them to hell."
>
>The spectacle nature of military funerals raises
>another constitutional hurdle for restrictive
>legislation, some feel.
>
>"If you are going to allow activity that is public in
>nature, then it becomes very, very difficult to limit
>protest activity outside," said Charles Davis,
>executive director of the University of Missouri's
>Freedom of Information Coalition. "While my heart
>grieves for people that are in that situation, I don't
>think you should limit speech."
>
>Ultimately, a court will probably rule on the matter.
>
>"It's obviously hard to make a final determination,"
>said Ed Yohnka, spokesman for the American Civil
>Liberties Union in Chicago, which will track the
>legislation. "But the point of having freedom of
>speech is to protect the speech we find most
>objectionable."
>
>---
>
>The Rev. Fred Phelps Sr.
>
>Age: 76
>
>Home: Topeka, Kan.
>
>Education: Studied at Bob Jones University in
>Greenville, S.C., and the Prairie Bible Institute in
>Canada. Earned a law degree from Washburn University
>in Topeka. Later disbarred.
>
>Family: Married 53 years; father of 13 children.
>
>
>__________________________________________________