[Peace-discuss] RE: Forgiveness Weekend program schedule

[Phil Stinard]

Carl,

Aaron Ammons gave an excellent interview on this week's IMC Radio News that 
might answer some of your questions about Forgiveness Weekend.  In a 
nutshell, the felonies in questions are non-violent victimless crimes such 
as drug possession.  The main questions of disenfranchisement are in 
employment and housing.  Aaron raised the important point that forgiveness 
is a two-way street--there also needs to be atonement by the felon and a 
mending of the ways.  Reverend Bevel and the other speakers are expected to 
address issues of atonement as well.

I hadn't planned to attend the events, but after reading the exchanges in 
the Peace-Discuss list, I definitely want to hear Reverend Bevel and the 
others speak, and I encourage everyone reading this list to attend, too.  I 
know of Bevel's past associations, but I have an open mind, and I want to 
hear what he has to say.

Clifford Thornton will also be holding a discussion this Sunday at 1 PM at 
the IMC before his 3 PM keynote speech at Forgiveness Weekend and the 5 PM 
AWARE meeting.  If this schedule has changed, please correct me.

To Danielle, I say don't be discouraged.  Although Carl has been harsh, he's 
just one individual, and he doesn't represent AWARE as a whole on this 
issue.  Don't lose any more sleep or work time over it.  He needs 
forgiveness as much as the rest of us.

--Phil

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Carl wrote:

>The rather headlong nature of your post makes it difficult to answer,
>Danielle, and you indicate that you don't want to discuss the matter by
>e-mail anyway (and that you were not "able to face [me] at the meeting
>yesterday"...?)

>I don't believe I mentioned the matter at any meeting yesterday.  What I
>did do was send you a question after the AWARE meeting: "What,
>specifically, is the disenfranchisement of felons that this conference
>seeks to end?" The question seemed quite straightforward to me.

>Randall offered what seemed to me to be an answer from a party with an
>interest in the matter, and we discussed it.  But I now understand him to
>say that it was at best a partial or tentative indication of what an
>answer would be.

>You know that I agree that drug laws and resulting imprisonments are not
>accidental evils in our society, but instead malign mechanisms of social
>control that must be opposed politically. But I still don't know what,
>specifically, is the disenfranchisement of felons that your conference
>seeks to end.

>Regards, Carl


On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Danielle Schumacher wrote:

>Thanks to Randall for all the time he put into defending Forgiveness
>Weekend.  As Randall said, the organizers of the event are overwhelmed
>for several reasons.  We have been putting as much information out
>about the CONFERENCE as possible, and while we know it does not
>contain as much information as we would like it to, we are doing what
>we can and we know that the event itself will contain most of the
>information you are looking for.  We are actually overwhelmed wth
>support.  For instance, I had to spend several days trying to arrange
>accomodations for people coming from out of town because there is a
>high school state wrestling championship that is taking all the hotel
>rooms.  We weren't expecting so many people from out of town for the
>events, so we didn't have rooms reserved far enough ahead of time :)
>!!!  The other thing that is overwhelming me personally is resistance
>and ATTACK from Carl.  I hope this is not your intention, Carl, but
>you are keeping me up at night because I am incredibly upset that the
>group I thought I was a part of is now allowing you to work so
>actively against everything I am trying to do.  And you don't even
>understand what I am trying to do!  I supposed I could have tried to
>clear some of your questions up sooner, but does anyone in AWARE blaim
>me for not being able to face you at the meeting yesterday?  And does
>anyone hold it against me that I feel it is a waste of time?  Should I
>put time into trying to change your mind or should I be putting time
>into making the CONFERENCE better?  I didn't answer all these emails
>last night, because I honestly couldn't believe they were happening,
>and now I am taking time from my new, wonderful job to answer this
>because I think it has gone way too far.  And all through email!  Why
>not on the phone?  The Forgiveness Weekend press release has my phone
>number.  Call and ask the questions, and I will answer if I can and
>talk to you when I have time.  I chose to use email in this case so
>that everyone could see my response, since you chose to attack us in a
>public venue.  And is Aaron even on the discuss list?  Why would you
>attack him in a venue in which he cannot even defend himself?  Please
>think about the situation you have put me in.  If I choose to not
>spend this time to answer your questions, you will continue to assume
>things.  If I choose to answer them, I am hoping I can calm your fears
>and I am taking time out of my work day, at which I get paid hourly
>and need every dollar because I am taking days off later in the week
>because Cliff Thornton will be my guest in town.  Honestly, I feel
>tempted to ask you to pay me for time lost at work and sleep lost,
>etc.
>
>Now, rather than go through each email and respond to each concern, I
>have read through them as quickly as I could since I will tell my
>supervisor at the Y to not pay me for the hour this entire process
>will take me.  I will respond with overall comments instead of
>nitpicky details.  Thanks again to Randall for answering your
>questions, since that is what he did!  Aaron's commentary should have
>answered what other forms of disenfranchisement we are referring to:
>the Higher Education Act Drug Provision denies financial aid to anyone
>with a drug conviction of any kind. public housing, government jobs,
>and other forms of public assistance are denied to felons.
>
>We are not just talking about Illinois.  We are talking about all
>felons in the U.S.  And we are mostly talking about felons whose only
>crime was drug POSSESSION and other NON-VIOLENT crimes.  Carl, you
>keep referring to violent criminals.  That is a different story, yet
>they are dealt with through the same criminal justice system so we
>must talk about them, too.  They too need forgiveness.
>
>I am tempted to just tell you to give it a rest and just come to the
>events and ask your questions there.  If you are not willing to do
>this sort of thing in public, only through email, then please refrain
>from doing it.  I don't feel right about it, doing it through email.  I 
>would much prefer to work through all these issues in a public,
>personal way.
>
>As for the distinction between "rally" and "conference"- I seem to
>remember you volunteering at an AWARE table at the Amnesty conference
>I held on campus last year.  Carol and Aaron obviously didn't have
>anything to do with the planning of that, but I think you will see the
>similarities between the two events.  No one had anything bad to say
>about that event, so why is this one (which I feel is going to be 100
>times better) being attacked by so many people on so many levels?  No
>one dug up dirt on the speakers at that conference before approving
>the AWARE money that supported it.
>
>As for the worth of Forgiveness Weekend... Carl, what are YOU doing to
>make the problem better?  Since you have such a perfect understanding
>of the problem, why are we (Forgiveness Weekend organizers) the only
>ones trying to do anything about it?  I'm sorry you feel that we are
>not doing enough, but at least we are trying to do something.  And we
>don't even have any money to do it with!!  I am confident that
>everything that is happening this Weekend is worth your time and at
>the very least will not be hurting society.  Everything we all learn
>this weekend, all the discussions we will have, all the action we will
>take can only help.
>
>Carl, if you have any respect AT ALL for ANYONE, please stop these
>posts immediately.
>
>I look forward to seeing all of you this Weekend!
>
>Danielle