[Peace-discuss] Re: Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 18, Issue 25

[Morton K. Brussel]

I appreciate your comments, Paul, and am well aware of your good  
motivations. I left out the first phrase of your Jesus quotation  
intentionally, because I think it only confuses things. For me there  
is too much literal militancy in the quotation. You can interpret it  
as you please. I think we can do better on quotations.

Mort


On Jul 11, 2005, at 6:37 PM, <ppatton at uiuc.edu> <ppatton at uiuc.edu>  
wrote:

>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:06:35 -0500
>> From: "Morton K. Brussel" <brussel4 at insightbb.com>
>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Paul Patton's circular
>> To: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Message-ID: <2181D011-B736-4626-9882-7504B590EEBC at insightbb.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
>>     format=flowed
>>
>> One must thank Paul Patton for creation of the circular on Bush
>> nuclear weapon policies, but I would be happier with it as a
>>
> AWARE
>
>> circular if the next batch omitted the quotations on the
>>
> front of the
>
>> circular. Einstein's quotation is not one of his best, and the
>> presumed Jesus quotation "…they that live by the sword shall
>>
> die by
>
>> the sword' is not so different from "an eye for an eye", with
>>
> which I
>
>> have problems.
>>
>
> Mort-
> Thanks very much for your comments on my pamplet.  I think you
> are misunderstanding the Jesus quote.  I found it cited in
> Johnathan  Schell's "The Unconquerable World", as evidence of
> Jesus's advocacy of non-violence.  The full quote, according
> to Schell is "Put up thy sword, for he who lives by the sword
> shall die by the sword".  Jesus is reputed to have said this
> in order to stop the Apostle Peter from starting a sword
> fight.  Unlike "an eye for an eye", it does not advocate
> revenge or retaliation, but rather cautions against the
> consequences of resorting to force.  The "Bush Doctrine"
> asserts that world peace can be achieved through US military
> world domination and the waging of "preemptive" war against
> any country deemed threating to such a US dominated world
> order.  Both the Jesus quote and the Einstein quote are
> intended to caution against the folly of this sort of
> thinking.  I'm OK with taking the quotes out of the next
> version of the pamplet, though, because Mort's post indicates
> that the intended message may not be clear to all.
>
> I heard that someone wanted to remove the reference section
> from the end of my pamplet, in order to make room for more
> pictures.  I'm not sure I like this, because I feel that
> taking out the citation of references weakens the credibility
> of the pamphlet.
>
>
>>
>> The circular is a solid commentary. I would only have
>>
> stressed more
>
>> that one cannot expect non-nuclear nations to refrain from
>>
> acquiring
>
>> nuclear weapons as long as other countries have them, and I
>>
> would
>
>> have noted that nuclear weapons can act obviously as a
>>
> protective
>
>> shield if deliverable to an aggressor. The ONLY way to
>>
> eliminate the
>
>> dangers of nuclear war is to have the elimination of nuclear
>>
> weapons
>
>> by all, with no favorites.
>>
>
> This is, of course, exactly what most of the nations of the
> world have already agreed to do, by signing the Nuclear
> Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT).  The treaty requires that
> countries not holding nuclear weapons refrain from developing
> them, and that countries holding nuclear weapons reduce, and
> eventually eliminate their arsenals. The non-nuclear weapons
> states, with the exception of North Korea (Israel, Pakistan,
> and India never signed) have lived up to their part of the
> bargain.  The nuclear weapons holding states, and in
> particular the United States, have been less sucessful in
> living up to their part of the agreement.  The Bush
> Administration has actually advocated the development of new
> types of nuclear weapons, a move which places NPT in jeopardy.
>
> If this is utopian, then so is the belief
>
>> that the nuclear genie will forever be contained in a world of
>> antagonistic nations.
>>
>> --mkb
>>
>
> Nations have no choice but to cooperate in containing the
> nuclear genie, or face eventual anihilation.  "He who lives by
> the sword shall die by the sword".
>
> -Paul Patton
> __________________________________________________________________
> Dr. Paul Patton
> Research Scientist
> Beckman Institute  Rm 3027  405 N. Mathews St.
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign  Urbana, Illinois 61801
> work phone: (217)-265-0795   fax: (217)-244-5180
> home phone: (217)-344-5812
> homepage: http://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ppatton/www/index.html
>
> "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.  It  
> is the
> source of all true art and science."
> -Albert Einstein
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