[Peace-discuss] Church issue

[Dan Schreiber]

It seems to me that the main issue here is to determine what your goals are.

1. If the goal is to make people uncomfortable and probably angry and/or
embarrassed, or if the goal is to punish churches for their hypocrisy, a
demonstration would be appropriate.  It will certainly lead to an exchange
of positions, but not likely a dialogue in the sense of people trying to
understand each other.  It would be akin to the Young Republicans
demonstrating outside the IMC.  It will make the Young Republians feel good
about annoying AWARE, but the demonstration itself wouldn't cause AWARE to
revisit their anti-war stance.

2. If the goal is to change people's minds, the most effective way to do
that is to become someone they trust and respect.  If I've learned anything
over the last 5 years of this long national nightmare, it is that people
will take seriously anything that comes from someone they trust and respect.
I'm not sure how to do this in this instance though.  Perhaps you'd have to
spend some time in the churches you want to change and build up enough trust
so that when you reflect a mirror on them, they would be willing to see
themselves.  Maybe what we need are tolerance missionaries serving in
churches around the world!

Note that I present this without judgement of the goals.  Making people
uncomfortable vs trying to connect with them serves different purposes at
different times.  I just don't believe that a demonstration is a way to
connect with people you disagree with (except in a very negative way).


Dan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net]On Behalf Of Phil
> Stinard
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:50 PM
> To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> Subject: [Peace-discuss] One last time on the church issue.
>
>
> Hello Tammy,
>
> I'll repeat some of the comments that I made to Jan's post, and
> then extend
> my comments a little.  Before doing something as drastic as creating an
> AWARE "presence" outside local churches, dialogue is essential.
> If you have
> not attempted dialogue, then don't antagonize them by invading their
> personal space, and by personal space, I mean being on their
> property, or in
> plain view of parishioners.  Secondly, I would highly recommend that the
> people involved in any church action be people of faith
> themselves, people
> who know the issues and the language of the church in question and have
> respect for the church.  Third, that such activities not be officially
> sponsored AWARE activities unless there is consensus (real consensus
> involving conflict resolution, not a 90% rule invocation) that AWARE
> proceed.  If AWARE doesn't agree on a particular action, there is
> nothing to
> stop individuals from acting on their own, provided that AWARE's
> name is not
> used.  These are extraordinary actions you're contemplating, and
> I want to
> make sure that you really think about what you're doing, and the
> consequences.  There is a huge difference between a church and
> the Taste of
> the CIA, for example, or between a church and a military
> recruiting office.
> I feel like a voice in the wilderness on this issue--I'm hoping
> that there
> will be more thoughtful discussion, but I've pretty much had my
> say on the
> issue.
>
> --Phil
>
> >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:49:13 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Tammy Watts <tammyewatts at yahoo.com>
> >Subject: [Peace-discuss] Rogue Congregations
> >To: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >Message-ID: <20051107174913.33819.qmail at web53108.mail.yahoo.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >Hello All:
> >
> >Yes, the subject line may be a little melodramatic, but it was the most
> >appropriate term I could think of.  Jan's experience with the Lutheran
> >Church mirrors mine with a Brethren denomination before I left
> Ohio.  The
> >official position of the Church of the Brethren is anti-war; as
> stated in
> >their tenets:  "...Opposes on Scriptural grounds...war and the taking of
> >human life..." with several Bible verses cited for support.
> However, the
> >congregation of which I was a member overwhelmingly supported the war in
> >Iraq.  Only the minister and his wife opposed it, and sadly I have just
> >learned that they have been given their notice to leave.  These "rogue
> >congregations" in conservative pockets throughout the country
> have not only
> >abandoned Biblical doctrine and the principles on which Jesus'
> ministry was
> >founded, but their own national charters.
> >
> >I am happy that this issue is a priority to AWARE, and once it is
> >determined what action is appropriate at which churches, I will
> be eager to
> >participate.
> >
> >Tammy
>
>
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