[Peace-discuss] Mel Gibson RIP

[John W.]

I just wanted to say that this is a fascinating discussion.  Dialogue the 
way it's supposed to be - two highly intelligent and "aware" people with 
differing but quite valid perspectives.  I wish that the harmony in 
diversity exhibited by AWARE members could be replicated in the larger world.

John Wason



At 01:58 PM 7/30/2006, Tammy Watts wrote:

>Alteration, no.  Polarization and moving toward a more extreme view, 
>yes.  Israel's ongoing actions are producing a whole new generation of 
>"terrorists."  The support Israel's campaign is enjoying from Jewish 
>groups here in the U.S. is contributing to increasing anti-Semitism; not 
>the other way around.
>
>The onus of peaceful dialogue should be on Jewish community groups and 
>organizations.  In Dayton, OH there was a solidarity rally for Israel with 
>former IDF officers as keynote speakers.  ALL the Jewish organizations in 
>the area sponsored the event.  Not one took a neutral stance or 
>acknowledged the humanitarian catastrophe Israel has created.
>
>I don't feel protective of Gibson; however in an environment where our 
>artists are attacked for being "insensitive" to one particular group of 
>people, as an American it certainly puts me on the defensive.  If it's not 
>Gibson coming under fire for The Passion of the Christ, it's that 
>self-hating Spielberg being condemned for his portrayal of Palestinians as 
>*gasp* humans with legitimate motivations behind their actions.  Not to 
>mention the Palestinian film that was nearly railroaded out of a Best 
>Foreign Film Oscar nomination.
>
>Our House of Representatives just passed a resolution 410-8 that expressed 
>solidarity with Israel and blamed the victims for nearly 600 civilian 
>deaths.  For the first time in my memory, the AP actually reported that 
>many Congressmen & women expressed concern over the language in the 
>resolution, but were "afraid of being targeted by the Israeli lobby."
>
>I'm not trying to explain or justify Gibson's remarks; a look at our 
>government, media and entertainment industry that are paralyzed by a 
>whisper of the "anti-Semitic" label speaks for itself.
>
>
>
>Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:
>For most people most of the time, stress, even extreme stress, doesn't
>lead to an alteration of world view. A person who expresses
>anti-Semitic sentiments under stress is almost certainly a person who
>already held these views, although may have previously been able to
>exercise enough self-restraint not to publicly and explicitly express
>them.
>
>The information about Gibson's behavior is in several press reports
>based on the police report. Neither Gibson nor his spokespeople have
>denied anything in the press reports.
>
>The notion that Israel's war crimes in Lebanon and Gaza justify or
>explain or excuse anti-Semitism is dangerous. It is a significant
>obstacle to reforming U.S. policy in the Middle East.
>
>I imagine that there are a lot of folks that admire and respect Mel
>Gibson for totally unrelated reasons, and in retrospect my original
>post was unnecessarily provocative, and I apologize for that.
>Certainly, if folks who feel protective of Mel Gibson tend to downplay
>his anti-Semitic statements as a result of feeling that he is being
>picked on, that would not be a good thing.
>
>I don't mean to suggest that in the set of all problems in the United
>States today anti-Semitism is a huge one. Anti-Semitism in the U.S.
>today is certainly a minor phenomenon compared with what most Jews had
>to deal with in Europe for hundreds of years, or even in the U.S. a
>hundred years ago. But in the context of discussion of the Middle East
>in the U.S., it's extremely harmful. It obstructs conversations that
>urgently need to happen, and helps keep people in positions that they
>need to come out of.
>
>
>On 7/30/06, Tammy Watts wrote:
> > I've always had enormous respect for Mel Gibson, and this incident doesn't
> > change that. I think anyone remotely in touch with the latest newscasts out
> > of Lebanon and Gaza and has a drop of humanity in them has gone a little
> > insane by now. Provided this information is accurate, that is. Jewish
> > "advocacy" groups have been out to get him ever since The Passion of the
> > Christ was released. If the ADL isn't too busy defending today's massacre
> > of children in Qana as Israeli self-defense, I'm sure they'll be all over
> > it.
> >
> >
> > Robert Naiman wrote:
> >
> > I am so delighted to see this right-wing thug go down. Is that bad?
> > The Daily Mail omits that he sexually harassed a female deputy, as
> > reported by TMZ and the Daily News. What a beautiful human being.
> > Definitely the sort of person who should be responsible for moral and
> > religious instruction. I do hope the ADL and the Wiesenthal Center
> > aren't too busy with other activities to concern themselves with this.
> >
> > 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=398182&in_page_id=1773
> >
> > 29/07/06 - TV & showbiz section
> >
> > Mel Gibson 'in anti-Semitic rant' after drink drive arrest
> > By SHARON CHURCHER, Mail on Sunday
> >
> > Mel Gibson was embroiled in furious controversy amid claims he
> > launched an anti-Semitic rant after being arrested on suspicion of
> > drink-driving.
> >
> > The 50-year-old Oscar-winner, who is from an ultra-conservative
> > Catholic family, is alleged to have told sheriff's deputy James Mee:
> > "F****** Jews. The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the
> > world."
> >
> > It is claimed Gibson then asked: "Are you a Jew?'
> >
> > The allegations were made by an American website, which claimed the
> > comments were included in the report into the incident written by Mr
> > Mee, the officer who arrested Gibson.
> >
> > Hollywood, ultra-sensitive to any hint of anti-Semitism, was abuzz
> > with talk of the claims, which could, if true, destroy Gibson's
> > career.
> >
> > TMZ.com posted what it says are excerpts from Mr Mee's handwritten
> > report, and the story was reported by newspapers including the New
> > York Daily News.
> >
> > Police declined to confirm or deny the claims, which come two years
> > after the actor's father launched a vicious attack on Jewish people,
> > claiming they fabricated the Holocaust and were conspiring to take
> > over the world. At the time Gibson was facing criticism that his film
> > The Passion Of The Christ was anti-Semitic.
> >
> > Gibson's spokesman Alan Nierob told The Mail on Sunday: "We are
> > unaware of any of the information pertaining to the police report. We
> > will be happy to issue a statement to you once we have one. In the
> > meantime we have no direct knowledge of any details."
> >
> > According to the widely read website, partly owned by Time Warner's
> > AOL subsidiary and generally regarded as reliable, the actor also
> > 'continually threatened' Mee, bragged that he 'owns Malibu' and would
> > spend all his money 'to get even' with the officer.
> >
> > The site reproduced four pages from what it said was Mee's eight-page
> > original police report. It said that Mee was ordered to rewrite it,
> > omitting the alleged slurs, after his superiors decided it was 'too
> > inflammatory'.
> >
> > TMZ claims he was told he could write a supplementary report
> > containing the omitted information, which would not be issued to the
> > media.
> >
> > The Daily News additionally quoted a sheriff's deputy saying that a
> > top official 'personally' ordered them to withhold from the media the
> > mugshot taken when Gibson was arrested.
> >
> > Los Angeles sheriff's department's media spokesman Steve Whitmore
> > repeatedly refused to answer The Mail on Sunday's question: "Is the
> > report posted on TMZ genuine?'
> >
> > He said: "My only statement is that the sheriff's department's
> > investigation into the arrest of Mr Gibson on suspicion of driving
> > under the influence will be completed and will contain every factual
> > piece of evidence. Nothing will be sanitised. There was no favouritism
> > shown."
> >
> > One Hollywood insider who knows the star said: "Everyone is talking
> > about this. It could destroy his career. People were sympathetic about
> > the drinking allegations until they heard this."
> >
> > Gibson's blood-alcohol level was 50 per cent over California's legal
> > limit, TMZ reported.
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