[Peace-discuss] Fwd: Disturbing words, Arundhati Roy

[Morton K.Brussel]

FYI.  If you download to hear her voice, start at the middle of the  
downloaded piece to hear her.
Such a sensitive, thoughtful, human voice.  --mkb

Begin forwarded message:

> From: ayca cubukcu <ac2116 at columbia.edu>
> Date: March 28, 2006 1:46:46 AM CST
> To: ayca at riseup.net
> Subject: [Ufpj-disc] disturbing words, arundhati roy
>
> **Please see footer for list protocol**
>
> friends and comrades,
>
> some disturbing words from arundhati roy. you can hear them at:
>
> http://archive.wbai.org/files/mp3/060314_100002gmus.MP3
>
> hope you enjoy,
>
> a.
>
>> ARUNDHATI ROY (talking to Biju Mathew on Global Movements Urban  
>> Struggles, aired on March 14, 2006, nyc`s WBAI radio, rush  
>> transcript and selection by anjali kamat)
>>
>> "I thank god for what’s happening in Latin America, or thank whoever.
>> But I also feel there is some sort of dishonesty in trying to  
>> manufacture hope at this point here in India
>> because that’s what a lot of activists do and eventually I think  
>> it takes the edge of people’s anger
>> because there is a point at which battles have to be fought even  
>> without hope. just in anger you know, sometimes hope tends to calm  
>> you down
>>
>> and I don’t feel that there’s anything calming me down right now
>> it’s not this “we shall overc! ome” thing you know
>> that’s what I mean, like we have to develop the honesty of the  
>> completely insane
>> sometimes I feel b/c see, I mean, I’m not a scholar of Latin America
>> but in India I think one of the really big problems, there is this  
>> cocktail of corporate globalization and feudalism, which is a  
>> deadly thing
>> b/c it is a society in which inequality is institutionalized you  
>> know, in a way which is not just class but also caste and religion.
>>
>> And one of the things that this whole Bush visit is riding on is  
>> the deadly base of communal feeling that has been laid by the BJP!  
>> and that has been ably and slimily carried forward by the Congress
>>
>> And one of the things I find so frightening is that increasingly  
>> the media is saying “oh, apart from the communists and the  
>> Muslims, there were no protests” …
>> because communists and muslims are not real people.
>>  And we had these huge demonstrations, and you know Muslims  
>> parties and organizations did have huge demonstrations.
>> And just like what happened in Gujarat, when the muslims said come  
>> out and vote, the hindus said, no we’ll vote for  Modi
>> So the hope is to say that if you say that the muslims protested,  
>> the hindus will take the opposite position, and the commu! nists  
>> are terrible people anyway
>> So this attempt to kind of work through these fissures is very  
>> frightening to me.
>>
>> And then you go to places like Kashmir, I mean who are the people  
>> who are actively resisting?
>>
>> See, I’ve been associated with non violent resistnce movements for  
>> some years now
>> And I think they’re completely spectacular but I think they’re  
>> completely lost now, in very many ways
>> They’re basically involved with court cases and they’re engaging  
>> with the government in the way the state wants to be engaged with
>> Then you have the Maoists and the resistance movements in Kashmir  
>> and all that
>>
>> And (laugh) you know I completely agree with what they’re fighting  
>> against
>> But I also know that were they to win their struggle, I’d be the  
>> first person to be strung up from the nearest tree
>>
>> So you’re always on the side of those who have no space for you in  
>> their social imagination.
>> So too I mean like when you read the literature of the gulag and  
>> you know what the history of Stalinism is and what happened in  
>> China you know that you’ll be crucified first
>> So you’re in this place where you’re fighting on the side of  
>> people who do not have a space for you in their social  
>> imagination, but you ! still must do it, you know
>>
>> So, I don’t know, I feel very disturbed by a lot of things that  
>> are happening
>> And yet I know that to say that these people are bad and those  
>> people are bad so I’m going to keep quiet means you’re on the side  
>> of george bush
>>
>> We had the conversation in the world tribunal on iraq that you  
>> know we support the right of the Iraqi people to resist this  
>> occupation and we’re not going to say how they should resist it or  
>> how it should be done because you can’t do that you know
>> But I think that’s why I feel that its very important to be, the  
>> only thing you can be is, devastating! ly honest now
>> Not tactical, not strategic, but just put your pegs down and say,  
>> look, I’ll be in that march, you know
>> I may not agree with a lot of things, what people say, I’ll be in  
>> that march but I will say what I think too, but I’ll be in that  
>> march …
>>
>> When I was talking about anger without hope I was talking about  
>> probably the time zone of maybe my own life span
>> I live today in a time when I probably feel that maybe in this  
>> time if the only thing I can do is to secure the tent pegs of my  
>> own tent and there’s this horrible wind blowing
>> That’s what I have to do.
>> That’s what I mean when I say you have to be a mad person you know
>> ! But, on a different time zone I really think that this American  
>> Empire is cracking, I really feel that it cannot handle it. It  
>> cannot handle more than iraq right now
>> And yet it has a momentum of its own that it can’t stop
>> And so it will commit suicide, it will have to
>> So you know the danger of course is that unlike any other  
>> civilizational cycle in history it's a civilization with nuclear  
>> weapons so I don’t know what that means.
>> But I do feel that there’s a kind of self destructiveness that it  
>> can’t get rid off, it cannot sidestep it, it will self destruct ...
>>
>>  Isn’t it interesting ! you know, you have the suicide bomber and  
>> then the suicide farmer.
>> One is a completely political act and the other is a totally  
>> apolitical act
>> And both are self destructive
>>
>> And I think the real violence that is done to people who are  
>> thinking politically but who are not really wanting to become pick  
>> up arms is that I’ve watched non violent movements just being  
>> rubbished just being decimated, you keep asking yourself is it  
>> because their strategies were too tired?
>>  is it because we lack imagination?
>> Or is it because the art of repression has become so cruel that  
>> there isn’t any place for that any more?
>>
>> It worries me! you know when we have our standard stuffed icons  
>> that we trundle out every time there’s a meeting of people’s  
>> movements
>> For us to take to arms means giving up everything …
>> Not just your life and your comforts but everything else that you  
>> believe in
>> And yet, as the repression becomes more and more cruel the only  
>> way to fight it is to become more and more cruel or it has to  
>> become more and more cruel
>> That’s why I say that it has no space for us in their social  
>> imagination
>>
>> So where do you go, you know?
>>
>> I keep feeling that if you could go to Kashmir for example where  
>> you know b/w 40,000 and 80,000 people have been killed …
>> !
>> 40,000 is the govt figure so it can’t be right
>>
>> But even Gandhians and activists have nothing to say about it,  
>> nothing.
>> There’s such a deathly silence
>> From Indian intellectuals and writers and artists and thinkers  
>> about this.
>>
>> It’s unbelieveable.
>>
>> I mean 10,000 people have disappeared.
>>
>> You wouldn’t know it.
>>
>> So if you go to Kashmir and then you come back to India and you  
>> read the papers
>> I keep thinking of this person I know who’s schizophrenic ! and  
>> one of the terrors she has is that when she looks in the mirror  
>> she sees some one else
>> And that’s what you feel when you read the papers all over the  
>> world you know
>> You feel like you’re looking at society and the reflection of  
>> somebody else b/c the newspapers are so full of lies and  
>> television is so full of falsehood
>> And its almost more real than reality now
>> The hallucination is more real and takes up more space than reality
>>
>> This morning I was looking at this little report that came out of  
>> Kalinganagar and the photographs of these adivasi bodies and their  
>> hands chopped off by the police
>> What can you think, you know? and what do you do with your anger?
>> Obviously the role of writers historically has been to take your  
>> anguish and your childhood and your secrets and whatever and turn  
>> them into art, you know
>>  But even the avenues where those things are expressed are being  
>> taken over.
>>
>> Bookshops are telling publishers what kind of books, and wal-mart  
>> is telling musicians what kind of music and …
>> you know its like the drains are blocked and the shit is flooding  
>> out the bathroom
>>
>> You know it’s almost like that becomes a metaphor for some kind of  
>> destruction
>> Whether its self-destruction or any other kind of destruction I  
>> don’t know
>> But certa! inly I think that human beings have begun to self  
>> destruct in many many ways.
>>
>> The suicide bombers and the farmers committing suicide, they’re in  
>> great numbers but, what about the drugs what about the abuse of  
>> your body because its almost better not to be here? Almost better  
>> not to be part of obvious …when you’ve watched what happened in  
>> these last 3 days ..Where do you put what you feel?
>> You know the people that seek to even channelize your anger you’re  
>> kind of repulsed by.
>>  I was so angry the day of the march, that all these people had  
>> come and actually the stage blocked us off from parliament and,  
>> there they were, you know, giving their speeches … that march was  
>> … it was just diffused by them.
>> You know, We should have stormed something! or done something  
>> because  people were really angry
>>  It’s their own leaders that stop it, you know
>>  So how will it all turn out?
>>  Will it just break down into apolitical criminal violence or  
>> people turning upon people?
>> I mean you talk of democracy, but look what happened in Gujarat.
>> I mean that’s a democracy but it’s also a functioning nazi society
>> Today muslims are being economically boycotted, they are being  
>> ghettoized.
>> Every kind of violence is being perpetuated
>> And here we are, the world’s greatest democracy, y! ou know
>>
>> How is it possible? What is going on that these lies are so much  
>> more real than … you know?
>> I mean maybe we can have philosophical discourses about what is  
>> truth, but I don’t think its that complicated to point out what is  
>> lies
>> I went to Kashmir not so long ago
>> After the earthquake and after all the ngos had gone in and had  
>> their photo opps and all that and left and .. I was so haunted you  
>> know by some of the stories
>>  One of them was: there was this village across a gorge, and this  
>> is at the line of control where the Indian army is there in full  
>> strength, with its helicopters and all that,
>> But it had finished taking all the credit for! having helped  
>> people that it normally … I mean you go there and people …. If you  
>> ask them their name they give you their ID card number.
>> You know they’re like prisoners and they’ve been controlled for so  
>> long and then ..
>> just one group of people, like one groups of activists were still  
>> there b/c they were just from a local area, they were kashmiri  
>> people, not from some fancy ngo.
>> they were still distributing there, sheets and all, they were  
>> talking about a village across the gorge, as winter was setting  
>> in, they were just freezing to death and people had just started  
>> sitting down.
>> They had no food, they had no shelter, they had no water.
>> And nothing was being done
>> And you just know that it’s happening
>> It's a metaphor
>> I just felt that everyone in so many places, is doing that, the  
>> equivalent of freezing and then just sitting down as the frost  
>> bite sets in …
>>
>> You know sometimes you become tired of being this bright person  
>> who’s always talking about hope and you can do this and we can do  
>> that because I think sometimes one has to go through that despair
>>  And then come out the other end and say ok, what are we going to  
>> do now? because I don’t know, you know …
>> -
>> Because actually we’ve been through that phase of the world social  
>> forum, and the marches and the songs and the demonstrations and  
>> the …all of us … whatever …
>> it is a political version of Woodstock that happened
>> But now I think we need to ask our selves some hard questions you  
>> know.
>> Like, it was just announced that I’m going be at the world social  
>> forum in Pakistan, when 2 years I’d already said publicly, look,  
>> its becoming some ngo fest and its just like, everyone is carrying  
>> on with the momentum and it becomes more and more meaningless and  
>> everyone’s really happy that people are just spending all their  
>> energy and political thinking and strategic thinking on how to  
>> organize this party, you know
>>
>> So, I think we need to feel despair
>> And we need to stop
>> And we need to accept that, you know, whatever it is, things are  
>> just railing on and ! we can’t … our weekend marches are not working.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously  
>> low rates.
>
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