[Peace-discuss] covert political positions

[Chas. 'Mark' Bee]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
To: "Bob Illyes" <illyes at uiuc.edu>
Cc: <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] covert political positions


> Bob Illyes wrote:
>
> >  "...the one paragraph about Clinton removed for lack of factual
> support..."
>
> The paragraph in question:
>
>   "The Clinton administration (1993-2001), shown the way by Bush-1 in
>   Somalia, where the killing of another thousand people by the US went
>   unremarked, seized on 'humanitarian intervention' to bring a
>   recalcitrant Serbia, on the border between Europe and the Middle East,
>   to heel in 1999. Democrats now try to contrast the Clinton
>   administration with that of Bush Jr., but in fact the former in turn
>   showed the way for the latter. And even if the estimates of more than
>   a half million people dead in Iraq as a result of Bush's war are
>   accurate, as they seem to be, it may still be the case that Clinton is
>   responsible for more dead Iraqis. The sanctions against Iraq imposed
>   by the UN after the Gulf War of 1991 -- in fact administered by the US
>   and the UK -- killed at least a half million children alone, according
>   to the two UN administrators who resigned in protest of the
>   'genocidal' US policies."
>
> There's nothing in that paragraph that "lacks factual support."

  Then where in your article do you provide it?  Show us.


  The
> objection to it seems to be that it doesn't play into what another 
> correspondent on this thread called the "Hillary-Obama mania," by ignoring 
> the crimes of the Clinton administration.  (Bob refers to his "differences 
> with Carl on Obama...")
>
> Does anyone who's been paying attention not know that Bush-1 sent troops 
> to Somalia on ostensible humanitarian grounds,

  Less than a month before his leaving office, wasn't it?

 and Clinton continued the
> "mission" until the US killed a thousand Somalians and wounded thousands 
> more, by CIA estimate? (The present US-sponsored invasion of Somalia is a 
> continuation of the Bush-Clinton policy.) That the Clinton administration 
> claimed "humanitarian" grounds for its (non-UN approved) bombing campaign 
> against Serbia (commanded by Gen. Wesley Clark)?  That the UN sanctions 
> against Iraq were run by the US and the UK? (Former UN Humanitarian 
> Coordinator Denis Halliday resigned in disgust like his predecessor and 
> called the policy “genocide.”)  And that the John Hopkins estimate of 
> Iraqi deaths caused by the American invasion and occupation (ca. 650,000) 
> is exceeded by the UN estimates of the number who died from the sanctions 
> in the Clinton years (as well as direct attacks)?
>
> These facts are ignored by those who don't want the last Democratic 
> administration besmirched with what any account of what it actually did. 
> And there's a lot of this covering for the Democrats going on. (Witness 
> MoveOn's recent work in support of more money for the war.) And this while 
> the party is working strenuously to neutralize the anti-war vote of the 
> last election.  The Public i shouldn't be a party to this propaganda 
> campaign.  --CGE

  I'm looking for proof that Clinton "showed the way" for Bush, and that 
Serbia wasn't undertaken on humanitarian grounds.  Not blather from a 
competing political party - proof.  Whatcha got for me?