[Peace-discuss] Proxy

[Morton K. Brussel]

The discussion about the flyer could perhaps continue on Sunday, but  
here are a few remarks apropos of  Bob's remarks below:

1) He says: " The concept of appropriate force seems to be completely  
lost to both Israeli and American leadership." What is "appropriate"  
force, and in what way was it "lost" on both leaderships?

2) Not every attempt to understand and explain world or national  
affairs by linking its actors, one way or the other, is a  
"conspiracy". Carl has beliefs about the linkage of Israeli and  
American policies in the middle east and beyond (Central America in  
the past, for example); I see no conspiracy theory there. It has been  
discussed and dissected, persuasively I believe, in many places  
elsewhere.

3) Yes, concealed agreements and understandings between governments  
do occur, as do actions based on them. Conspiracies do exist, have  
existed. I don't know what it means to say "I don't believe in  
conspiracy theories".

--mkb

On Jul 4, 2007, at 8:58 AM, <illyes at uiuc.edu> <illyes at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> So we have it by Carl's own hand. By calling the Israeli actions in  
> the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon "America's recent wars" he claims  
> Israel as our proxy. I don't agree with him, although I do agree  
> that Israel should be condemned for many things regarding these  
> actions, as should America for much of what she does abroad. The  
> concept of appropriate force seems to be completely lost to both  
> Israeli and American leadership.
>
> My point is that Carl's theories have no place in an AWARE-endorsed  
> flyer, because we have nothing like consensus regarding them. If we  
> stick to the facts, we are all in almost complete agreement. As  
> soon as we start dealing in conspiracy theories, we are not. We  
> need to stick to the facts.
>
> I will not be in the parade today, because I do not want to be  
> associated with this flyer, and I see no indication that it has  
> been edited to meet the standards of consensus.
>
> I will be bringing the flyer up at the Sunday meeting. I do not  
> think we will have consensus to distribute it with the AWARE name  
> on it.
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss