[sf-core] Re: [Peace-discuss] Iraq protest [sic]

Mon Jul 16 17:19:50 CDT 2007

The problem is that the Democratic proposal for a "phased withdrawal," 
in all of various forms, is a sham. Even the strongest one, that offered 
by Feingold before the recess, leaves a substantial number of troops in 
Iraq and continues the assault against that country from outside 
("counterinsurgency").

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats mean to leave Iraq, much less 
abandon US military control of the Middle East, and they are essentially 
agreed on how to stay -- withdraw from the population centers, defend 
the permanent bases (and the billion-dollar embassy compound) and 
control the flow of oil. That's a withdrawal of combat troops.

The Democrats' stance is the more hypocritical.  They want the cachet of 
being anti-war, given where the population is now, while continuing to 
fund it (but with a bill written by Democrats).  The Democrats' "phased 
withdrawal" is a way to continue the war, not end it.  --CGE

Andrew Ó Baoill wrote:
> 
> 
> Politics is the art of the possible. While there may be 29 or so (at 
> present) willing to cut off funding immediately (which is what you 
> advocate), there appears to be a small majority who would - if given an 
> opportunity - vote for a 'phased withdrawal' plan
> 
> 
> Now, you can take the view that it is immoral to push for a vote on a 
> phased withdrawal because it's not a perfect solution, taking some 
> period of time to end the war. Or you can see winning such a vote as 
> putting us in a better situation than we are at present.
> 
> Impotent righteousness or pragmatic gains. Your choice.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Jul 16, 2007, at 3:38 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
> 
>> Let me get this straight: you're working to get 51 votes in the Senate, 
>> because you can't get 41?
>>
>> You're right that once elected members of the US Congress can say 
>> anything they want, they're not bound by their constituents' wishes -- 
>> and, remarkably enough, the Congressional Democrats have chosen as a 
>> group to reject doing what they were elected to do, end the war.
>>
>> Instead of ending the war (as they could) they want to use its 
>> unpopularity to denigrate the other faction and increase their own 
>> electoral chances. They're actually willing to prolong the war for that.
>>
>> Instead of participating in rallies organized by Democratic party front 
>> groups, we should demand the Democrats do what they were elected to do. 
>> --CGE
>>
>> Robert Naiman wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Depends who you mean by "they."
>> > 
>> > 29 Senators voted for the Feingold-Reid withdrawal bill. The prospect
>> > of getting 41 Senators to filibuster war funding is fairly remote.
>> > 
>> > Sadly, we don't live in a European parliamentary democracy. For better
>> > and worse - mostly worse - there is no such thing as the "Democratic"
>> > position on anything. If you can win a Democratic primary and get
>> > elected, you can say anything you want.
>> > 
>> > But in any event, I submit that one doesn't have to support or oppose
>> > into any particular legislative strategy for ending the war to attend
>> > tomorrow's protest. It only takes 51 votes in the Senate, apparently,
>> > to confirm a Federalist Society hack to the Supreme Court. It should
>> > only require 51 votes to stop the war.
>> > 
>> > On 7/16/07, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu 
>> <mailto:galliher%40uiuc.edu> 
>> > <mailto:galliher%40uiuc.edu>> wrote:
>> > > This is a matter of barking up the wrong memorial.
>> > >
>> > > If the Democrats were serious about ending the war, instead of just
>> > > wanting it to use the the war to benefit Democrats, they could do so by
>> > > using the filibuster. Instead of voting further funding for the war,
>> > > which they continue to do, they could prevent any war funding measures
>> > > from passing the Senate. That requires only 41 votes, which they have.
>> > >
>> > > --CGE
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Robert Naiman wrote:
>> > > > There will be a protest tomorrow of the use of the Senate 
>> "filibuster"
>> > > > to block efforts to end the war in Iraq.
>> > > >
>> > > > Tuesday, 5pm, Veterans Memorial, Broadway and Main, Urbana.
>> > > >
>> > > > http://political. 
>> <http://political.moveon.org/event/counterfilibuster/39352>moveon.org/event/counterfilibuster/39352 
>> <http://political.moveon.org/event/counterfilibuster/39352> 
>> > <http://political. 
>> <http://political.moveon.org/event/counterfilibuster/39352>moveon.org/event/counterfilibuster/39352 
>> <http://political.moveon.org/event/counterfilibuster/39352>>
>>
> 
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