[Peace-discuss] Ideology options

[n.dahlheim at mchsi.com]

I wouldn't say that I favor any other system over liberal democracy (with built-in safeguards to civil 
liberties and extensive economic reforms favoring equality of access to vital public services).  Like a 
wise man said, "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all of the others."  Ultimately, 
the prevalence of authoritarian governments whether fascist or Marxist in tone that succeeed in 
previously democratic countries makes me wonder if the people don't consciously look to liberal 
democracy.  Without a highly educated public capable of discourse in a communal setting, democracy 
cannot work.  People in this country have consistently chosen conspicuous consumption and vacuous 
entertainment over the development of real democracy.  So, yes, some form of liberal democracy is 
preferable; but, people don't usually take care to pass it down for posterity.  Yes, progressives must 
work people one-on-one; but, I am just not optimistic that we will be able to compete with 
megachurches who lampoon everything modern science and reason stands for---the best weapons we 
have in our rhetorical arsenal.  Simple-minded people would rather accept Jeus into their heart and wait 
for God to rapture them up into heaven (despite the fact that none of the early Biblical exegesis by the 
Church Fathers demonstrates any early Christian belief in the Apocalypse that today's Bible barbarians 
proclaim from their TV satellites).  I don't think that people will make the sacrifices and do the effort for 
democracy en masse.  People would have to confront too many uncomfortable truths---for instance, 
how little power and knowledge they have compared to the corporations who own practically 
everything.  People would have to get off their butts and organize and work, often with much threat to 
their personal safety and property.  People would have to read and become educated enough to 
undersand what it meant when the Bush Administration eviscerated habeus corpus last year with the 
Military Commissions Act.  DOES ANYONE SEE THIS HAPPENING AROUND THIS COUNTRY IN THE NEAR 
FUTURE WHEN THIS COUNTRY IS AWASH IN A MINDLESS CULTURE OF ENTERTAINMENT AND 
CONSUMPTION?  No, so, I am decidedly pessimistic about democracy here.  The Republic is dead, and 
people seem to be assenting  to corporate fascism in their political apathy and acquiesence.  


----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
From:    <illyes at uiuc.edu>
To:      peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: [Peace-discuss] Ideology options
Date:    Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:35:15 +0000

> Take a closer look at "What's the matter with Kansas", Nick. The Republican's 
> took Kansas one person at a time by one-on-one conversation. Progressives can do 
> exactly the same thing, but they have to quit this ivory-tower stuff and start 
> talking to "the masses".
> 
> Your reservations about the possibilities of functional democracy are similar to 
> those used by fascists in South America (don't get mad before you read the rest 
> of what I write). It is almost automatically assumed that fascists have bad 
> intentions. This is often not the case. Fascism in South America grew from a 
> dread that liberal democracy would lead to government that pandered to the 
> people, but against their own actual interest, and to general decadence. There 
> is something to this argument, but know that this ideology did not have a good 
> outcome, although the Intagralistas in Brazil are worth reading about.
> 
> Marxism has similar bad outcomes. The dictatorship of the proletariat quickly 
> devolved into plain dictatorship. The quality of what followed depended on the 
> strongman in charge, just as is the case in a monarchy. The most interesting 
> current thinking that follows from Marx is anarchist.
> 
> I see no counter-proposal from you to liberal democracy or universal suffrage. 
> So far, liberal democracy has the best track record, although its record leaves 
> a lot to be desired, as we all know.
> 
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss