[Peace-discuss] Ron Paul's support...

[C. G. Estabrook]

I'm not sure how thoroughly my goat has been gotten, but the exchange 
has ventilated what I take to be the crucial point: Paul's surprising 
success in garnering money and support comes from his opposition to the 
war and his call for the restoration of civil liberties, not from his 
economic libertarianism.  People are supporting him because he's seen as 
not part of the malign Democrat-Republican collusion that has reduced 
Congress' approval rating below that of the president.

Paul's bill to repeal the Military Commissions Act, restore Habeas 
corpus, prohibit extraordinary rendition, and the use of secret evidence 
and evidence obtained by torture (HR 3835) has yet to obtain any 
cosponsors, Republican or Democrat, altho' Kucinich and others have 
cosponsored other bills of Paul's.  --CGE


Robert Naiman wrote:
> Well, this is pretty reasonable.
> 
> I was not really that outraged by Paul's vote. I just wanted to get
> Carl's goat. It was a base motivation, and I regret it.
> 
> 
> On Nov 12, 2007 8:24 AM, Michael Shapiro <mshapiro51 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is direct from Ron Paul about the impeachment.
>>
>> http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=976
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Speaker, I rise, reluctantly, in favor of the motion to table House
>> Resolution 799, Impeaching Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United
>> States, of high crimes and misdemeanors, and in favor of referring that
>> resolution to the House Judiciary Committee for full consideration. I voted
>> to table this resolution not because I do not share the gentleman from
>> Ohio's desire to hold those responsible for the Iraqi debacle accountable;
>> but rather, because I strongly believe that we must follow established
>> protocol in matters of such importance. During my entire time in Congress, I
>> have been outspoken in my opposition to war with Iraq and Iran. I have
>> warned my colleagues and the administration against marching toward war in
>> numerous speeches over the years, and I have voted against every
>> appropriation to continue the war on Iraq.
>>
>> I have always been strongly in favor of vigorous congressional oversight of
>> the executive branch, and I have lamented our abrogation of these
>> Constitutional obligations in recent times. I do believe, however, that this
>> legislation should proceed through the House of Representatives following
>> regular order, which would require investigation and hearings in the House
>> Judiciary Committee before the resolution proceeds to the floor for a vote.
>> This time-tested manner of moving impeachment legislation may slow the
>> process, but in the long run it preserves liberty by ensuring that the House
>> thoroughly deliberates on such weighty matters. In past impeachments of high
>> officials, including those of Presidents Nixon and Clinton, the legislation
>> had always gone through the proper committee with full investigation and
>> accompanying committee report.
>>
>> I noted with some dismay that many of my colleagues who have long supported
>> the war changed their vote to oppose tabling the motion for purely political
>> reasons. That move was a disrespectful to the Constitutional function of
>> this body and I could not support such actions with my vote.
>>
>> I was pleased that the House did vote in favor of sending this legislation
>> to the Judiciary Committee, which essentially directs the committee to
>> examine the issue more closely than it has done to this point.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 6, 2007 9:44 PM, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Kucinich's impeachment bill against Cheney was voted twice on in the
>>> House today.
>>>
>>> The Democratic leadership first tried to kill debate by tabling the
>>> Kucinich bill. This failed, because a substantial minority of
>>> Democrats was supported by a majority of Republicans in opposing the
>>> Democratic leadership motion to table. Ron Paul voted with the
>>> Democratic leadership and against both the Kucinich Democratic bloc
>>> and the Republican majority to kill debate.
>>>
>>> Then the Democratic leadership sent the bill to die - at least so they
>>> hope - at the Judiciary committee. This vote was almost entirely on
>>> party lines. Overwhelmingly, Democrats voted to send the bill to
>>> committee. Only 4 Democrats voted with Kucinich not to send the bill
>>> to committee: Filner, Kaptur, Towns and Waters.
>>>
>>> Conversely, Republicans voted overwhelmingly against killing the bill
>>> by sending it to committee. Only 4 Republicans voted with the
>>> Democratic leadership to kill the Cheney impeachment bill.
>>>
>>> Who were those four Republicans? Well, one of them was Ron Paul.
>>>
>>> Ron Paul - Democratic Party Hack.
>>>
>>> 1st vote:
>>> http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1037.xml
>>>
>>> 2nd vote:
>>> http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1039.xml
>>> _______________________________________________