FW: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus

Thu Sep 20 15:10:38 CDT 2007

> Here's someone who's easily as cynical as you, Nick, 

You are probably wrong; I am probably more cynical and pessimistic.  I lost
my idealistic virginity years ago and have settled at best for pragmatic
realism, which often means apathetically sitting back and watching with some
enjoyment the world going to hell in a handbag when I think that the odds of
having any positive impact is non-existent.  If and when I do get involved,
it is for my own personal enjoyment and not because I think that I stand a
chance of being effective. Sometimes the enjoyment of being a pain in the
ass and thorn in the sides of the establishment is as effective as you can
get - but that is a personal pleasure and not a socially effective outcome. 

> and I'm guessing quite
> a bit older.  He's been around the block at least a half dozen times,
> I'd say. :-)

You got that right!  I am about 41 years older and been around the block at
least a half dozen times since I was in elementary school and got suspended
for starting a revolution among the sixth grade Jewish students against
having to sing Xmas carols at the school assemblies. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net [mailto:peace-discuss-
> bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of John W.
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:19 PM
> To: Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> 
> At 11:01 PM 9/18/2007, Laurie at advancenet.net wrote:
> 
> > > We are way behind the 8-ball folks
> >
> >When were we in front of the 8-ball or even with it?
> >
> > > The David Ray Griffin books point the finger at the Administration
> > > pretty convincingly.  What I don't get is why so many of you won't
> look
> > > at that evidence.
> >
> >Part of the problem is that too many progressives are reformers and
> not
> >revolutionaries; they tend to be intellectuals who write and read
> books
> >aimed at preaching to the choir and feeding their own pockets and egos
> >rather than engaging in any direct actions. It is all an intellectual
> >exercise for them and those who they engage in their discussions and
> >conversations with.  The other part of the problem is that the mass
> audience
> >in the U.S. are not intellectuals; they do not read or care to engage
> in
> >serious analysis.  They prefer entertaining television, movies, and
> >graphics.  Hence, they do not read or regard your critical analyses
> and data
> >- much less understand it.
> >
> >The opposition among the masses tend to be dogmatic believers in their
> >religion of capitalistic and democratic dogma along with
> fundamentalist and
> >literal Christianity and Western European white superiority.  Hence,
> they
> >will not read or accept anything that does not fit their pre-
> conceptions or
> >the rituals and myths of their leaders.
> >
> > > If we are still thinking about elections and Congress, we are a
> joke.
> >
> >We have always been a joke; why is this instance different?  Elections
> are
> >not Democracy; they are only a mechanism for circulating elites with
> respect
> >to positions of authority.  Representative democracy in a republic
> such as
> >the U.S is an excuse following the polls when it is convenient and
> ignoring
> >the populous when it is not.  Representative democracy is a spectator
> sport
> >for the masses and participatory entertainment for elites who only
> represent
> >their own established vested interests and organizational survival.
> 
> 
> Here's someone who's easily as cynical as you, Nick, and I'm guessing
> quite
> a bit older.  He's been around the block at least a half dozen times,
> I'd
> say. :-)
> 
> Let's all move to some foreign country and start a commune!
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
> > [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of
> > n.dahlheim at mchsi.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:08 PM
> > > To: Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> > >
> > > We are way behind the 8-ball folks...  In National Security
> > Presidential Directive 51, the Administration
> > > has already seized emergency powers a la Hitler in 1933....
> Congress
> > is feckless.  When will the people
> > > on this list even wake up to 911!!!  The David Ray Griffin books
> point
> > the finger at the Administration
> > > pretty convincingly.  What I don't get is why so many of you won't
> look
> > at that evidence.  Don't you
> > > think that the Admimistration had a lot to gain from 911?  Havent'
> they
> > and their allies in banking, oil,
> > > and defense made billions and trillions off this "War on Terror?"
> Come
> > on, 19 Arab hijackers completely
> > > fooled a $13 trillion dollar defense system with the most advanced
> > radar and sophisticated air radar
> > > system in the word?  Give me a break.  Yeah, and jet fuel caused
> the
> > towers to fall...  What about WTC 7?
> > >
> > >  If we are still thinking about elections and Congress, we are a
> > joke.  Other action is needed; the
> > > Republic and democracy is pretty much dead.  Reason has disappeared
> in
> > the wake of consumerism and
> > > entertainment... We need alternative ideas, and I want help in
> forming
> > them; but, we need the right
> > > paradigms first.   FIRST, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ORCHESTRATED
> 9/11! IF
> > YOU CANNOT SEE THAT,
> > > NONE OF THE EVENTS FOLLOWING IT REALLY MAKE MUCH SENSE!
> > >
> > >                       Nick
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
> > > From:    Patricia Fettig <pfettig at prairienet.org>
> > > To:      peace at lists.chambana.net, peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> > > Date:    Wed, 19 Sep 2007 00:18:13 +0000
> > >
> > > > This message was sent to me. I think it is worth considering.
> > > >
> > > > Pat
> > > >
> > > > This week the Senate is going to vote on Leahy-Specter-Dodd's
> > > > Restoration of Habeas Corpus Act.
> > > >
> > > > We have a very real chance to rollback the Bush Administration's
> assault
> > > > on the Constitution in a very fundamental way.
> > > >
> > > > The vote is going to be a close one, and could very well come
> down to
> > > > grassroots participation and pressure.
> > > >
> > > > First step: Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor of the bill and ask
> five
> > > > people to do the same.
> > > >
> > > > From there, we'll receive direction on which Senators need to be
> > > > persuaded to vote YES on this critical piece of legislation.
> > > >
> > > > http://restore-habeas.org/
> 
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