[Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an immediate end to the war...

Fri Aug 1 09:46:13 CDT 2008

Look, a plethora of Democrats directly voted for the war.  Nader never voted
yes to invade Iraq.  He and the Green Party aren't the ones who continues to
the fund the war (that would be the Republicans and Democrats).  It's
delusional to pretend the Democrats weren't complicit in the wars.

I agree that there's a time for idealism and a time for reality.  But I
disagree about which is which.  It's idealistic and fantastical to believe
that a candidate (Obama) who has continually stated his support for more
war, lack of support for a true single-payer non-corporate welfare health
care system, and expansion of coal and nuclear power plants is going to go
back on these statements and financiers.  I'm going for reality, which is
based on the statements and positions of the candidates and how they align
with my own vision for America.  Voting for a candidate that makes
statements opposing your own values is permission to continue doing so.  For
those still clinging to the hope of the Democratic Party, verbally
criticizing the policies of their candidates gives them a reason to
reconsider.  A blank check will not.  Either Obama's positions truly are
awful, or he is lying to the American people with the intention of carrying
out his true hidden progressive agenda.  Aren't we mad at Bush for lying to
us about Iraq?  Is there a double standard for the Democrats?  Can they lie
to us all they want and whisper sweet nothings into our ears and we'll
continue to fill their bubbles on the ballot?  I hope not.

Former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney received the presidential nomination
of Green Party several weeks ago and will be on the ballot in Illinois.  I
urge all to consider voting for her as well.  She wants our troops home now,
all of them, from every corner of the globe.  She supports a true
single-payer universal health care system and an aggressive strategy to
address global warming.  She's not in the pockets of any corporations
either.  If you support these things, vote reality.  Vote McKinney.

Tom

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Yeah, Nader said no difference betw Gore and Bush, and look what that got
> us. Okay, you and I (and Hedges) are still alive and well, but the millions
> of Iraqis dead or displaced, the thousands of Americans dead or disabled,
> those who have lost their homes, jobs, health care and other benefits beg to
> differ.
>
> Are there more similarities than we'd like between Obama and McCain, esp
> wrt exiting Iraq? Yes. Are there also huge differences on other key issues,
> esp domestic ones? Yes.
>
> There is a time for idealism and a time for reality. That time is now. On
> behalf of those sharing the planet w/ you, choose reality... and continue to
> work for the ideal -- you'll have a better chance of getting closer to that
> w/ Obama.
>  --Jenifer
>
> --- On *Fri, 8/1/08, Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> From: Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an
> immediate end to the war...
> To: kmedina at illinois.edu
> Cc: "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
> Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 2:23 AM
>
>
>  As the late, great Eugene V. Debs stated: "I'd rather vote for something
> I want and not get it than vote for something I don't and get it."
>
> McCain is open about his imperialism in the Middle East.  People have, and
> rightly so, criticized McCain's imperialist linguistics/policies.  However,
> it is a misconception and disingenuous to state that the wars in Iraq and
> Afghanistan are "Republican wars" or "Bush's wars".
>
> Let's not forget that Congressional Republicans and Democrats authorized
> the use of force, authorized the Nuremburg Tribunal violating invasion of a
> country that did not attack us and has continued to fund an illegal, immoral
> and imperialist occupation.  The Democrats seized Congressional power in
> 2006 with the masses' dissatisfaction with the Iraq war.  What have they
> done since they've seized power?  A whole lot of nothing major to end the
> war that they were given the power to stop.
>
> The idea that Nader is evil is absolutely laughable and an unfair
> characterization.  All left of center votes are not already prescribed to
> the Democratic party.  As I watch a party continue to fund an illegal,
> imperialist war...As I watch a party sell out the 4th Amendment while
> accepting AT&T funding/gifts for the DNC...As I watch a party given the
> power to end the war yet do nothing...As I watch a party who watches
> flagrant high crimes and misdemeanors taking place on such an epic and open
> scale that it boggles the imagination and does nothing.  As I watch all of
> this, it is quite clear why people vote for 3rd party candidates.  They are
> tired of their interests being sold out after being co-opted (see the
> anti-war mandate of '06, for example).
>
> If anybody wants to place the blame on so-called spoilers, blame it the
> Democratic party and Obama.  These candidates need to earn the votes of
> people.  Obama's candidacy should have a warning signal: This candidate
> makes wide right turns.  Obama is for a continued military presence in the
> Middle East despite the Rand Corporation stating that a military operation
> is not the optimum way to combat terrorism.  Obama is for the "White Man's
> Burden" style of imperialism -- the idea that we can't dare leave
> Afghanistan or Iraq because the Afghanis and the Iraqis sure as Hell don't
> know how or can't form their own government and security themselves.  I sure
> as Hell can't vote for that.
>
> Obama has also stated that he would attack and bomb Pakistan if they didn't
> do as we said.  He's supported the apartheid regime in Israel.  He's for
> aggressive wars as well and seems to be for the "Bush Doctrine" of
> aggressive wars but in alternative forums (Afghanistan/Pakistan/Palestine,
> not Iraq).
>
> But we're supposed to hold our nose and vote Obama?  The idea of lesser
> evilism has led to numerous problems and made the Democratic party the
> opportunist that capitalizes on outrage for their own electoral gain rather
> than fixing the problems that so many are concerned about.  It is the
> graveyard of social movements.
>
> I agree with Hedges:  I can't vote for a candidate that doesn't call for an
> immediate end to this blatant imperialism.
>
>  There is only this moment,
>
>      Neil
>
>    We absolutely have to refuse to attribute any kind of permanency to
> that which is simply because it is.
> [angela v. davis, 1944-]
>
> The point is, the only real tools we have are our eyes and our heads. Its
> not the act of seeing with our own eyes alone; its correctly comprehending
> what we see.
> [warren ellis, 1968-]
>
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