[Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an immediate end to the war...

Fri Aug 1 12:27:12 CDT 2008

This is too SERIOUS to play these nyah nyah gotcha games. Look at the whole picture and the projection into the future if McCain wins. 
 --Jenifer

--- On Fri, 8/1/08, Tom Abram <tabram at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Tom Abram <tabram at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an immediate end to the war...
To: jencart13 at yahoo.com, kmedina at illinois.edu, "Neil Parthun" <lennybrucefan at gmail.com>, "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 12:17 PM

Actually, in Illinois our choices are:

McCain - R
Obama - D
McKinney - G
Nader - I
Barr - L
Baldwin - C
Polachek - New

It doesn't have to be a dichotomy.  How brands of cereal do we have?
Do we go to a grocery store thinking Frosted Flakes or NOT-Frosted
Flakes?  Isn't it more important to have choice for president than
cereal?

 I'm all for electoral reform so our system is more representative of
our citizenry.  But when I tried to do that locally, it was blocked by
the Democrats themselves!   Plus, they didn't stand up to election
fraud in Florida, Ohio, and elsewhere.  I guess it's easier to
scapegoat than take responsibility for their own failures.

Tom

On 8/1/08, Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Folks,
> Our choice is not McCain or McKinney... or McCain or (shudder) Nader (aka
> person who sought right-wing Repub funding for his last run)... or McCain
or
> Kucinich... or McCain or Paul!! Our choice is McCain or NOT McCain, aka
> Obama. It's too late for idealism. The moment to get real is now.
>  --Jenifer
>
> --- On Fri, 8/1/08, Tom Abram <tabram at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Tom Abram <tabram at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an
> immediate end to the war...
> To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
> Cc: kmedina at illinois.edu, "Neil Parthun"
<lennybrucefan at gmail.com>,
> "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
> Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 9:46 AM
>
>
>
> Look, a plethora of Democrats directly voted for the war.  Nader never
voted
> yes to invade Iraq.  He and the Green Party aren't the ones who
continues to
> the fund the war (that would be the Republicans and Democrats).  It's
> delusional to pretend the Democrats weren't complicit in the wars.
>
> I agree that there's a time for idealism and a time for reality.  But
I
> disagree about which is which.  It's idealistic and fantastical to
believe
> that a candidate (Obama) who has continually stated his support for more
> war, lack of support for a true single-payer non-corporate welfare health
> care system, and expansion of coal and nuclear power plants is going to go
> back on these statements and financiers.  I'm going for reality, which
is
> based on the statements and positions of the candidates and how they align
> with my own vision for America.  Voting for a candidate that makes
> statements opposing your own values is permission to continue doing so. 
For
> those still clinging to the hope of the Democratic Party, verbally
> criticizing the policies of their candidates gives them a reason to
> reconsider.  A blank check will not.  Either Obama's positions truly
are
> awful, or he is lying to the American people with the intention of
carrying
> out his true
>  hidden progressive agenda.  Aren't we mad at Bush for lying to us
about
> Iraq?  Is there a double standard for the Democrats?  Can they lie to us
all
> they want and whisper sweet nothings into our ears and we'll continue
to
> fill their bubbles on the ballot?  I hope not.
>
> Former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney received the presidential nomination
> of Green Party several weeks ago and will be on the ballot in Illinois.  I
> urge all to consider voting for her as well.  She wants our troops home
now,
> all of them, from every corner of the globe.  She supports a true
> single-payer universal health care system and an aggressive strategy to
> address global warming.  She's not in the pockets of any corporations
> either.  If you support these things, vote reality.  Vote McKinney.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Jenifer Cartwright
<jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah, Nader said no difference betw Gore and Bush, and look what that got
> us. Okay, you and I (and Hedges) are still alive and well, but the
millions
> of Iraqis dead or displaced, the thousands of Americans dead or disabled,
> those who have lost their homes, jobs, health care and other benefits beg
to
> differ.
>
> Are there more similarities than we'd like between Obama and McCain,
esp wrt
> exiting Iraq? Yes. Are there also huge differences on other key issues,
esp
> domestic ones? Yes.
>
> There is a time for idealism and a time for reality. That time is now. On
> behalf of those sharing the planet w/ you, choose reality... and continue
to
> work for the ideal -- you'll have a better chance of getting closer to
that
> w/ Obama.
>  --Jenifer
>
> --- On Fri, 8/1/08, Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Neil Parthun <lennybrucefan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Hedges: only a candidate who calls for an
> immediate end to the war...
> To: kmedina at illinois.edu
> Cc: "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
> Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 2:23 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As the late, great Eugene V. Debs stated: "I'd rather vote for
something I
> want and not get it than vote for something I don't and get it."
>
>
> McCain is open about his imperialism in the Middle East.  People have, and
> rightly so, criticized McCain's imperialist linguistics/policies. 
However,
> it is a misconception and disingenuous to state that the wars in Iraq and
> Afghanistan are "Republican wars" or "Bush's
wars".
>
>
> Let's not forget that Congressional Republicans and Democrats
authorized the
> use of force, authorized the Nuremburg Tribunal violating invasion of a
> country that did not attack us and has continued to fund an illegal,
immoral
> and imperialist occupation.  The Democrats seized Congressional power in
> 2006 with the masses' dissatisfaction with the Iraq war.  What have
they
> done since they've seized power?  A whole lot of nothing major to end
the
> war that they were given the power to stop.
>
>
> The idea that Nader is evil is absolutely laughable and an unfair
> characterization.  All left of center votes are not already prescribed to
> the Democratic party.  As I watch a party continue to fund an illegal,
> imperialist war...As I watch a party sell out the 4th Amendment while
> accepting AT&T funding/gifts for the DNC...As I watch a party given
the
> power to end the war yet do nothing...As I watch a party who watches
> flagrant high crimes and misdemeanors taking place on such an epic and
open
> scale that it boggles the imagination and does nothing.  As I watch all of
> this, it is quite clear why people vote for 3rd party candidates.  They
are
> tired of their interests being sold out after being co-opted (see the
> anti-war mandate of '06, for example).
>
>
> If anybody wants to place the blame on so-called spoilers, blame it the
> Democratic party and Obama.  These candidates need to earn the votes of
> people.  Obama's candidacy should have a warning signal: This
candidate
> makes wide right turns.  Obama is for a continued military presence in the
> Middle East despite the Rand Corporation stating that a military operation
> is not the optimum way to combat terrorism.  Obama is for the "White
Man's
> Burden" style of imperialism -- the idea that we can't dare leave
> Afghanistan or Iraq because the Afghanis and the Iraqis sure as Hell
don't
> know how or can't form their own government and security themselves. 
I sure
> as Hell can't vote for that.
>
>
> Obama has also stated that he would attack and bomb Pakistan if they
didn't
> do as we said.  He's supported the apartheid regime in Israel. 
He's for
> aggressive wars as well and seems to be for the "Bush Doctrine"
of
> aggressive wars but in alternative forums (Afghanistan/Pakistan/Palestine,
> not Iraq).
>
>
> But we're supposed to hold our nose and vote Obama?  The idea of
lesser
> evilism has led to numerous problems and made the Democratic party the
> opportunist that capitalizes on outrage for their own electoral gain
rather
> than fixing the problems that so many are concerned about.  It is the
> graveyard of social movements.
>
>
> I agree with Hedges:  I can't vote for a candidate that doesn't
call for an
> immediate end to this blatant imperialism.
>
>
>
>
> There is only this moment,
>
>      Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  We absolutely have to refuse to attribute any kind of permanency to that
> which is simply because it is.
> [angela v. davis, 1944-]
>
>
> The point is, the only real tools we have are our eyes and our heads. Its
> not the act of seeing with our own eyes alone; its correctly comprehending
> what we see.
> [warren ellis, 1968-]_______________________________________________
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
>

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