[Peace-discuss] Kinzer: Surge Diplomacy, Not Troops,
in Afghanistan
LAURIE SOLOMON
LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET
Mon Dec 8 22:39:26 CST 2008
While I am inclined to agree with Carl that there seems to be two schools of
thought and that the second school is probably right and while I also agree
that trying to educate the members of congress including Obama about the
real nature of the wars is pointless since they already have that
information, it still might be possible to convince them that they need to
become more aggressively anti-war than they have been or they will be
jeopardizing their political careers or the future of their political party
ability to gain public support in future federal, state, and local elections
and fund raising. However, it would take some serious disruptive acts of
civil disobedience to make the threat a viable one that will get their
attention. I doubt that the liberal progressives and reformers have it in
them to mount and engage in such actions in any concerted fashion.
With respect to educating the public, as Carl suggests, I am inclined to
think that (given the economy and the fact that it appears to be getting
worse (1) with many companies going bankrupt, out of business, or in need of
bailouts, (2) with increasing numbers of people losing their jobs and
houses, and (3) with state and local governments feeling the pinch when it
comes to furnishing services and employment at previous levels - let alone
at levels needed to accommodate the increased needs of their residents for
health, education, welfare, public works, and public safety services) the
public focus of concern is directed toward the domestic economy and economic
policies more than foreign policies, national security issues, and/or the
current and future conduct of the wars. Consequently, unless one can make a
vivid connection between foreign policies, national security issues, and our
engaging in the wars on the one hand and the collapse of the domestic
economy and its effect on their daily lives and everyday comforts on the
other hand, they will not be listening to any efforts to educate them or
rebut the mass media spin.
-----Original Message-----
From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G.
Estabrook
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:07 PM
To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
Cc: Peace-discuss List
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Kinzer: Surge Diplomacy, Not Troops, in
Afghanistan
But letting our "senators and congress members know what we think" depends
upon
our knowing what we think. There seem to be two schools of thought:
(1) those who say we don't yet know what Obama might do (!), so we
should ask
him politely to be nice; or
(2) those who say that the US government is waging a criminal war
throughout
the Middle East, so we should oppose it as vigorously as possible.
If the second group is right (and I think they are) we should rather be
addressing our fellow citizens, exposing the real nature of the war against
the
media misrepresentations, and organizing opposition. Addressing senators
and
congress members is relatively pointless: they know what the situation is,
unlike the propagandized populace. --CGE
Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> EXACTLY!!! No point in pissing and moaning in-house...Let's let the
> world -- or at least our senators and congress members -- know what we
> think, even if it seems futile for now! Make phone calls, send emails
> and post cards, sign on-line petitions. Not as much fun as peace-discuss
> list rants, but potentially more effective.
> --Jenifer
>
> --- On *Mon, 12/8/08, Robert Naiman /<naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>/* wrote:
>
> From: Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Kinzer: Surge Diplomacy, Not Troops, in
> Afghanistan
> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
> Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 3:50 PM
>
> So, you're against promoting a vigorous national debate? I mean,
> suppose we don't think a threat of civil unrest is plausible. Then why
> bother do anything, right? Might as well go back to bed.
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:40 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu>
> wrote:
> > The problem is that the new administration is committed to this plan
-- as
> > they have said for a while. It seems that a national debate would
have to
> > be quite vigorous -- involving a threat of civil unrest, as in 1968
-- to
> > blunt the incoming administration's enthusiasm.
> >
> > (The Pentagon Papers describe how the Pentagon told President
Johnson in
> > 1968 that it could not send more troops to Vietnam and still have
enough
> to
> > control the US domestic population. But we've not gotten to that
> point
> > today.)
> >
> >
>
<http://www.stwr.org/the-un-people-politics/noam-chomsky-on-1968-/-vive-la-r
evolution.html>
> >
> >
> > Robert Naiman wrote:
> >>
> >> USA Today reports that Gen. McKiernan - top U.S. commander in
> >> Afghanistan - "has asked the Pentagon for more than 20,000
> soldiers,
> >> Marines and airmen" to augment U.S. forces. McKiernan says U.S.
> troop
> >> levels of 55,000 to 60,000 in Afghanistan will be needed for "at
> least
> >> three or four more years." He added: "If we put these
> additional
> >> forces in here, it's going to be for the next few years. It's
> not a
> >> temporary increase of combat strength."
> >>
> >> We should have a vigorous national debate before embarking on this
> >> course. Contrary to what one might think from a quick scan of the
> >> newspapers, there are knowledgeable voices questioning whether
> >> increasing the deployment of U.S. troops to Afghanistan is in our
> >> interest, or is in the interest of the Afghan people.
> >>
> >> Bestselling author and former longtime New York Times foreign
> >> correspondent Stephen Kinzer argues the opposite in this five
minute
> >> video...
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/kinzer-surge-diplomacy-no_b_1493
64.html
> >>
> >> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/8/15317/1502
> >>
> >> http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/38127
> >>
> >> --
> >> Robert Naiman
> >> Just Foreign Policy
> >> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> >> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> >>
> >> Ambassador Pickering on Iran Talks and Multinational Enrichment
> >> http://youtube.com/watch?v=kGZFrFxVg8A
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Peace-discuss mailing list
> >> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Naiman
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>
> Stephen Kinzer: Surge Afghanistan Diplomacy, Not Troops
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e24UHABpWE8
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>
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