[Peace-discuss] Ron Paul & GroundHog Day

[C. G. Estabrook]

Bob--

I'm sure you saw the Greens' 1/24 press release, headlined "Tactical 
retreat by pro-Democrat fake antiwar lobbies is setting back the peace 
movement" <http://www.gp.org/press/pr-national.php?ID=18>.

Do you think they're wrong to call MoveOn and AAEI "pro-Democrat fake 
antiwar lobbies"?

Interesting about Paul's Congressional office.  --CGE


Robert Naiman wrote:
> I don't agree with Carl's characterization of MoveOn and AAEI, but I 
> do wholeheartedly agree with welcoming the Ron Paul folks to the 
> event.
> 
> It seems like they are playing nice. Why not give them the benefit of
>  the doubt? It seems to me like the bias should strongly be in favor
> of inclusion and collaboration. If something happens at the event
> that folks find objectionable, then that should be addressed. But
> good faith should be the starting presumption until there is clear
> evidence to the contrary.
> 
> Students for Ron Paul is co-sponsoring the Kinzer talk on the 17th...
> 
> 
> In my experience dealing with Ron Paul's Congressional office in 
> Washington - which was significant - I always found them to be 
> principled anti-imperialists.
> 
> On Jan 31, 2008 7:53 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> We have of course been "approached by Clinton and Obama supporters"
>> -- more than approached: we've worked with them in the shape of the
>> Democratic party front groups, MoveOn and "Americans Against
>> Escalation in Iraq." (And theirs was a purposeful attempt at
>> co-option of the anti-war movement; that's not what the Ron Paul
>> campaign is doing.)
>> 
>> We've also had Ron Paul supporters (with RP signs) participate in
>> the Main Event.  (I spent most of one such afternoon arguing with
>> an RP man over democratic control of the economy.)  There is at
>> least one AWARE member and participant in Saturday demonstrations
>> who arrives in a car with a Ron Paul bumper sticker...
>> 
>> Soi-disant liberals should not be censors. "Let a hundred flowers
>> bloom, let a thousand schools of thought contend."  --CGE
>> 
>> 
>> Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>>> Yes, the folks are more than welcome, but not their Ron Paul
>>> signs. I agree w/ Stuart that AWARE is being co-opted... and
>>> given treats afterwards as payola. It annoys me that they
>>> announced that they'd be joining as Ron Paul supporters, they
>>> didn't ask if it'd be okay nor assure us that it was to support
>>> peace and anti-imperialim, and that there wouldn't be any Ron
>>> Paul stuff in evidence. Again, if you'd been approached by
>>> Clinton or Obama supporters, would yr response be  as welcoming??
>>>  --Jenifer */"Morton K. Brussel" <brussel at uiuc.edu>/* wrote:
>>> 
>>> It seems to me a good idea to /*welcome*/ all anti-war, 
>>> anti-imperialism folks.  We need a vocal mass anti-war movement. 
>>> --mkb.
>>> 
>>> On Jan 31, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Jan & Durl Kruse wrote:
>>> 
>>>> With this (at least for now) still being a free country and the
>>>>  corner of Neil and Main being a public place I thought it was 
>>>> polite and really not needed for the Ron Paul folks to ask to
>>>> join our group.  How do you say: "NO we don't allow others to
>>>> join us in public?  We monitor signs and we only allow
>>>> like-minded people to join us" ......This (opposition to the
>>>> war) may be the only point we agree with the Ron Paul folks on,
>>>> however when the news media (the Ron Paul folks have invited
>>>> them) asks for a sound bit..........anyone can make a case for
>>>> free speech....... and this moment where two groups from
>>>> usually different perspectives have found a point on which they
>>>> agree and can stand on the same street corner and say.... NO to
>>>> the War in Iraq! You can always hold a sign that says "I don't
>>>> support Ron Paul or the Iraq War!"  and ...........Maybe it
>>>> will look like Ron Paul support's AWARE......... JAN K On Jan
>>>> 30, 2008, at 10:50 PM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 07:47:51PM -0800, Jenifer Cartwright
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> So... they'll be carrying their Ron Paul signs and marching
>>>>>> w/ AWARE members, and AWARE will be appear to be supporting
>>>>>> Ron Paul?? I'm NOT in favor of that at all!!  Somebody
>>>>>> needs to set some ground rules on this. --Jenifer
>>>>> Yes, I too will be uneasy about it if there turn out to be
>>>>> many people sporting Ron Paul signs.  I'm happy to
>>>>> demonstrate alongside Ron Paul supporters -- and I don't feel
>>>>> any need to agree with all the signs that we collectively 
>>>>> carry -- but carrying signs for a particular candidate whom
>>>>> many of us couldn't support does seem to cross a line.  It
>>>>> feels like we're being co-opted, in a way that co-protesting
>>>>> with AAEI didn't.
>>>>> 
>>>>> At the same time, as member of an anarchic group, I'm also
>>>>> uneasy about trying to set "ground rules".   Still it's worth
>>>>> discussing.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jan & Durl Kruse <jandurl at insightbb.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:jandurl at insightbb.com>> wrote: > The Main Event
>>>>>> will be held this Saturday February 2 from 2-4 in
>>>>>>> Downtown Champaign at the corner of Main and Neil.  The
>>>>>>> following message is from our friends and recent AWARE
>>>>>>> meeting attendees for Ron Paul.  They plan to join the
>>>>>>> anti-war protest this Saturday and wanted to let others
>>>>>>> know the information below! Subject: GroundHog Day
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Durl (and Jan)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you for the pleasant phone conversation this
>>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Our Ron Paul meetup group will join AWARE for the
>>>>>>> Anti-War rally at 2-4 pm Saturday.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> MerryAnn's Diner and the RonPaul meetup group will
>>>>>>> provide free hot coffee and hot chocolate.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Would you please let the AWARE group know that we will be
>>>>>>>  joining you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Wayne Johnson