[Peace-discuss] Ralph Nader on Obama & Israel
C. G. Estabrook
galliher at uiuc.edu
Thu Feb 28 15:26:22 CST 2008
"Obama didn't say 'Hugo Chavez is a dictator.' What he said was, 'Dictators like
Castro and Chavez.'" = A distinction without a difference. --CGE
"It is a poetic principle that the freedom of the individual
must fight against the restrictions of reality... I am still,
thank God, an atheist." --Luis Bunuel (1900-83)
So don't let reality get you down.
Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> Actually, I don't believe in God... but I wouldn't make a point of that
> if I were running for office (God forbid) any more than politicians make
> a point of airing opinions and beliefs that would lose them votes
> (having run for office yourself, I'm sure you can relate). And no, I
> wouldn't say Obama was lying -- I save that nasty accusation for the
> REAL liars -- Bush, Chaney et al (notice I didn't say "like" Bush and
> Chaney." By the same token, Obama didn't say "Hugo Chavez is a
> dictator." What he said was, "Dictators like Castro and Chavez." Unless
> he was really gonna stick his neck out (always a wee hours dream of
> mine) and say, Latin America is finally moving in the right (left)
> direction, he had to (at least for now) give lip service to the
> prevalent anti-socialist view that has been foisted upon unAWARE voters.
> And yeah, I do hope he's not really locked into that position.
> --Jenifer
>
> */"C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>/* wrote:
>
> So, along with Bob's Hillary bumper-sticker ("Ready To Lie From Day
> 1"), you
> have one for Obama: "God, I Hope He's Lying!"
>
> And the charges about Harding's ancestry were generally unknown
> because the
> federal government moved vigorously to suppress them. William Estabrook
> Chancellor (1867-1963), an Ohio Democrat and professor at Wooster
> College, wrote
> about Harding's blackness (by American definitions -- wonderfully
> skewered in W.
> B. Michaels recent THE TROUBLE WITH DIVERSITY), just before the 1920
> election
> (between two Ohioans, Republican Harding and Democrat James G.
> Blaine). For his
> pains he was fired from the college, and his pamphlets were seized
> by federal
> authorities and destroyed. (In toto five copies apparently still exist).
>
> He seems to have been an elevated racist (I never met him), educated
> at Amherst
> and married into the family of Harriet Beecher Stowe. He wrote
> prolifically,
> publishing some forty books and hundreds of articles, but when his
> biography of
> Harding appeared, after Harding became president, it was suppressed,
> apparently
> by the Bureau of Investigation (precursor to the FBI), who monitored
> him from
> then on. Unable to research or find a teaching position, he went to
> Canada.
>
> BTW Harding himself was piece of work, combining personal qualities
> of Clinton
> and Bush (e.g., bad grammar -- which Mencken famously pilloried --
> and affairs
> in the Oval Office); he headed a corrupt administration (Teapot
> Dome), and one
> of his lovers extorted vast sums from the Republican party and a
> trip to Japan
> during the 1920 election as the price of her silence; and -- perhaps
> to counter
> the racial charges -- he seems to have undergone an induction
> ceremony into the
> Ku Klux Klan in the White House. --CGE
>
>
> Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> > Yeah, a protest vote (and vocal protest) is safe in IL, but I
> have an
> > axe to grind w/ Nader from 2000, so I'd NEVER, EVER vote for him.
> >
> > Yeah, I have a medium-long list of things I wish Obama hadn't
> said and
> > hope he doesn't really believe when it comes time to act on them
> or not.
> >
> > Yeah, right. The country knew they were voting for a (half) black
> when
> > they elected Harding and didn't mind a bit (Harding had one white
> and
> > one black parent??). Nice relatives you have, btw.
> >
> > Jenifer
> >
> > */"C. G. Estabrook" /* wrote:
> >
> > He's gone just the other way on Israel/Palestine.
> >
> > Of course the US has already elected a (half) black man president,
> > Warren G.
> > Harding. (A relative of mine was involved in "outing" him, just
> > before the
> > election of 1920.)
> >
> > And, actually, you don't have any "REAL choice" in the matter.
> > Illinois will
> > deliver its electoral votes to the Democratic candidate, whoever
> > s/he is, in all
> > circumstances short of an alien landing. So you're free to vote for
> > Nader, if
> > you want. It won't make any difference. --CGE
> >
> >
> > Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> > > Nah, Obama's just making sure he continues to be a viable
> > presidential
> > > candidate. I've noted that the more general and enthusiastic
> > support he has,
> > > the more outspoken he becomes. I'm hopeful. What other REAL
> > choice to we have
> > > other than voting for him (and then continuing to work to get our
> > agenda
> > > heard and acted upon, of course). Tearing him down is a waste of
> > time and
> > > energy, imho, and only produces a standing wave.
> > >
> > > Folks, the US electorate is about to elect a (half) black man
> > president of
> > > the US fer crissakes!! Dunno about */you/*, but I never tho't I'd
> > live to see
> > > the day, and */I /*have blessings to count.
> > >
> > > Nice delusion that "a substantial majority" is doing- or thinking
> > about much
> > > of anything beyond what immediately affects them.
> > >
> > > Again, we must agree to disagree. --Jenifer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > */"C. G. Estabrook" /* wrote:
> > >
> > > The best we can do is hope that Obama is lying? (He's certainly
> > not "keeping
> > > quiet on the issue"!)
> > >
> > > In fact, Obama is to the right of US public opinion on this as on
> > other
> > > issues, notably the war. A substantial majority want the USG to
> > play an
> > > even-handed role in Israel/Palestine, which it obviously isn't.
> > Obama's task
> > > (and that of the Democrats in general), as he recognized early
> > on, is to
> > > neutralize the opinions of he majority in favor of the elite
> > positions. --CGE
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> > >> Well Ralph, we're all hoping Obama'll do as you say if/when he's
> > elected.
> > >> (I have a long long list of things I'm hoping he'll do
> > > better
> > >> on when it's "safe" for him to do so). But he's not gonna get
> > > elected by
> > >> running on that particular platform (as well you should know), so
> > > that's
> > >> why he's keeping quiet on the issue, discretion being the better
> > > part of
> > >> valor. ("Liberal evangelist"... excellent!) --Jenifer
> > >>
> > >> */"C. G. Estabrook" /* wrote:
> > >>
> > >> "...Senator Obama is a person of substance. He's also the first
> > > liberal
> > >> evangelist in a long time. He's run a brilliant tactical
> > campaign. But his
> > >> better instincts and his knowledge have been censored by
> > himself. And I
> > >> give you the example, the Palestinian-Israeli issue, which is a
> > real off
> > >> the table issue for the candidates. So don't touch that, even
> > though it's
> > >> central to our security and to the situation in the Middle East.
> > He was
> > >> pro-Palestinian when he was in Illinois before he ran for the
> > state Senate.
> > >> Now he's supporting the Israeli destruction of the tiny section
> > called
> > >> Gaza with a million and a half people. He doesn't have any
> > sympathy for a
> > >> civilian death ratio of about 300-to-1; 300 Palestinians to one
> > Israeli.
> > >> He's not taking a
> > > leadership
> > >> position in supporting the Israeli peace movement, which
> > represents former
> > >> Cabinet ministers, people in the Knesset, former generals,
> > former security
> > >> officials, in addition to mayors and leading intellectuals. One
> > would
> > >> think he would at least say, 'Let's have a hearing for the
> > Israeli peace
> > >> movement in the Congress,' so we don't just have a monotone
> > support of the
> > >> Israeli government's attitude toward the Palestinians and their
> > illegal
> > >> occupation of Palestine."
> > >>
> > >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23319215/
>
>
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