[Peace-discuss] Not voting

n.dahlheim at mchsi.com n.dahlheim at mchsi.com
Tue Jan 29 04:23:52 CST 2008


I should qualify my remarks just a bit.  I am not opposed to voting in every instance; in local elections 
voting may actually do some good.  At the federal level, and particularly for the office of President, the big 
corporate powers have all the cards....  I don't even pretend to believe in such tomfoolery.


----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
From:    Stuart Levy <slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu>
To:      n.dahlheim at mchsi.com
Cc:      Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Not voting
Date:    Tue, 29 Jan 2008 05:12:08 +0000

> On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 11:26:34PM +0000, n.dahlheim at mchsi.com wrote:
> > Once again, I really urge people not to vote.  The quality of political 
> discourse and the fakery posing as a 
> > genuine political campaign offends my sensibility and my intelligence.  I 
> definitely do not plan on voting in 
> > such a ridiculous American Idol campaign that displays none of the pretense of 
> even appearing like a 
> > genuine political contest.  We can say that we want the lesser of the evils 
> presented us, but we will get 
> > nowhere with that as the elite can control whomever wins anyway like a 
> marionette.  Have a loud no vote 
> > and speak against the process, not out of apathy but out of frustration and 
> enlightened disgust!
> >      Nick
> 
> I really think that's foolish.
> 
> If you're trying to make a public statement of disgust with the system,
> vote for someone who won't win but should (like Kucinich).
> Or vote in other races but not the national ones. 
> Or write in Pogo for President.
> 
> For heaven's sake, if you live in Champaign or Urbana, *do* vote
> on the referenda.  Urge Champaign to fund its township General Assistance
> to at least the miserly level set by state guidelines.  Say you want the
> Military Commissions Act repealed and Habeas Corpus restored.
> Say you want us out of Iraq and Iran.  Will saying those things make them 
> happen?
> No.  But not saying them, being silent, gives consent.
> 
> Just staying away is indistinguishable from apathy.
> Apathy is what shows the System that it's winning.  Fight it.
> 
> Now -- if you are also speaking against the point of view that says,
> "by going to the polls and voting, I have properly exercised my
> democratic voice, and owe no further obligation to our society
> until the next election" -- if you are saying that too, I'd heartily
> agree with you.  Voting is not remotely sufficient.  But it is important.
> 
>    Stuart
> 
> > ----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
> > From:    Ricky Baldwin <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>
> > To:      peace discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> > Subject: [Peace-discuss] the primaries before Iowa
> > Date:    Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:11:31 +0000
> > 
> > > Somewhat along the lines of the article Mort just shared, the latest issue 
> of Z 
> > > has an article
> > > with some telling data on the "elite's hidden primary."  It's not even all 
> that 
> > > hidden, the
> > > sources being readily available (and it's not a new story, but updates are 
> > > important for telling
> > > the story).
> > > 
> > > For example, over 80 percent of all presidential campaign donations as of 
> fall 
> > > '07 went to six
> > > candidates: Clinton, Obama, Romney, Giuliani, McCain and Edwards (in that 
> > > order).  Almost 70
> > > percent were over $1000 (meaning: not from you or me or probably anybody we 
> > > know).  The author
> > > goes into great detail, and it's fascinating, breaking out groups of big 
> donors.  
> > > "Big Capital"
> > > (finance, real estate, insurance) favors Clinton, then Giuliani, Romney and 
> > > Obama.  The big law
> > > firms favor Clinton, Edwards then Obama.  Etc.
> > > 
> > > But it's not just donations.  Carl had earlier raised the grim point that 
> the 
> > > evil Zbigniew
> > > Brzezinski is working for Obama (apparently, as in one of the articles Mort 
> > > shared, because he is
> > > supposed to have the best grasp of the "historical moment", a sort of 
> > > Machiavellian term as I
> > > understand it, meaning he'll do the most to advance nasty US ruling class 
> > > interests 'at this
> > > juncture' as Bush Sr used to say.
> > > 
> > > But all six of these top money getters also have high-powered advisers from 
> the 
> > > notorious Council
> > > on Foreign Relations: McCain's list including Henry Kissinger, Lawrence 
> > > Eagleburger, Alexander
> > > Haig, George Schultz and Colin Powell.  Clinton of course has Bill and 
> Madeleine 
> > > Albright, who've
> > > been sharing the stage with her, but also Richard Holbrooke (ugh!) and Bush 
> Jr's 
> > > "surge" plan
> > > co-author John M Keane.  Not that the one with the most CFR members 
> necessarily 
> > > wins, but the four
> > > with the most CFR help seem to be the front runners, and those without ... 
> well, 
> > > they're starting
> > > to drop out even before we in Ill. can pretend to vote for them.
> > > 
> > > I think it's especially important for us here in Ill., and for us who know 
> so 
> > > many in the
> > > "professional" class that strongly supports Obama, to keep on Obama's tail.  
> But 
> > > the jist of the
> > > article is more important, altho it's no shock to most of us, or (I think) 
> to 
> > > most people: the
> > > ruling class has narrowed the field so severely based on its interests and 
> its 
> > > estimations that
> > > whoever wins will suit them just fine.  (CFR is just one big way, a sort of 
> > > "peer review" for the
> > > ruling class, and a fair amount of donations will naturally accrue to 
> whoever 
> > > donors believe is
> > > the likely choice - notice I don't say whose choice.)
> > > 
> > > And the corollary, for us activist types or just anyone harbors a democratic 
> > > hope, is the most
> > > important of all, tho the author has to cram it in quickly at the end, 
> > > presumably for reasons of
> > > space: none of the "serious" (i.e. elite, and therefore non-snowball) 
> candidates 
> > > will do what the
> > > majority of people really need done unless we make them do it.  The author 
> calls 
> > > it "people's
> > > movements" and "direct struggle", which seems to just about cover it.  
> > > 
> > > Keep it up, folks, groups like AWARE are the closest thing we have to a real 
> > > vote.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
> > > 
> ________________________________________________________________________________
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