[Peace-discuss] AWARE out of touch?

[n.dahlheim at mchsi.com]

Brilliant point about the composition of the AWARE group----John, you and Laurie are often the most 
sane and level-headed voices who send out posts over this listserv.....

Nick


----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
From:    "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
To:      "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
Cc:      peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Bush admin torture policy
Date:    Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:03:43 +0000

> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 10:22 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:
> 
> John, you're the one who believes what the media tell you about what
> > Americans believe, instead of what the folks who've actually asked them say.
> > (Or maybe it comes from your deep immersion in the American soul, of which
> > the rest of us are so sadly deprived.) --CGE
> 
> 
> Your snide, sarcastic, effete response, Carl, is, of course, the truth, at
> least as regards the contrast between you and me.  I don't presume to speak
> for the rest of the readers of this list.
> 
> On the one hand we have me:  Spent the first 24 years of my life in a
> working class neighborhood on the south side of Chicago.  Went to an
> "integrated" Chicago public high school followed by - yes, the Ivy League
> education that you're so fond of bringing up, which slightly improved my
> vocabulary but precious little else.   Spent the next 20 years in a blue
> collar factory town in central Illinois, whose principal industries were
> International Harvester, Caterpillar, and strip mining.  Worked as a
> Teamster, a farm laborer, a service station attendant, a "landscape
> maintenance technician", an exterminator, and a firefighter.  There wasn't a
> white collar person to be found anywhere with the exception of a handful of
> doctors, lawyers, and I.H. management.  Had I not been married to a doctor
> and had two doctors as best friends, I would have had absolutely no idea how
> that segment of the population lived and thought.  But I did and I
> do....PLUS the factory workers and the coal miners and the construction
> laborers and the police and firefighters.
> 
> On the other hand we have you:  Grew up privileged, went to a prep school
> followed by a lengthy stay at Harvard while accumulating three degrees.
> Spent his entire adult life as a professor.  Gets all of his information
> from books.  And presumes to have his finger on the pulse of the "average"
> American more than I do.
> 
> Well, I leave it to the readers of this list to judge which of us is more in
> touch with reality.  It doesn't matter to me, ultimately.  I just think it
> remarkable, your unshakeable conceit that AWARE in general, and you in
> particular, are somehow in a position to "educate" the vast hordes of
> "average" Americans who listen to Rush Limbaugh, watch FOX news, and believe
> with all of their shallow "Christian" hearts that Israel can do no wrong
> because the Jews are God's chosen people, for once and all time.
> 
> The irony is that you and I agree on so many political issues, and you do
> keep ME somewhat informed through your frequent bloviations on this list.
> But the "average" American?  You and s/he are on different planets, and all
> the polls in the world aren't going to give you a fucking clue.  You're that
> walking cliche, the Ivory Tower intellectual, the educated idiot, the guy
> who learned more and more about less and less until he ended up knowing
> everything about nothing.
> 
> Carry on, MacDuff.  Or whatever the fuck that Shakespeare fellow said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > John W. wrote:
> >
> 
> >  Absolutely right, Laurie.  Even Scott Ritter, who is well known to just
> >> about everyone on this list, is not by any means a household name in the
> >> vast majority of American households.  Ditto Amy Goodman, Norman
> >> Finkelstein, et all.  This AWARE list comprises a terribly rarefied group.
> >>
> >> There are also different educational contexts.  A parade float is
> >> inappropriate for anything but the very broadest and shallowest of
> >> educational constructs.
> >>
> >> Carl, you really, really, really need to get out among the fellaheen more.
> >>
> >> John Wason
> >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss