[Peace-discuss] Bellicose rhetoric???

[C. G. Estabrook]

John--

I don't recognize the reflection in the mirror you hold up to my nature, and 
that may be my error, of course, but I don't identify with any of the usual 
forms of Idealism, unless you mean only that ethics and politics should be 
guided by ideals in the sense of goals -- things one wants to do or accomplish 
(and that's an Aristotelian point).

Instead of being an idealist Platonist, Cartesian, Kantian, or Hegelian -- I'd 
prefer to identify myself with Aristotelian, Thomist, and Marxist materialism 
(which I think by the way are more compatible with Christianity than the 
Idealisms; announcing the resurrection is asserting a materialism over against 
Pharisaic idealism...).

Putting aside these matters, which may be of interest only to you and me on this 
list, I will say that I do on the contrary recognize your use of Realism: it was 
classically set out by the American sociologist C. Wright Mills fifty years ago, 
in "The Causes of World War Three," which seems to me presciently to describe 
realism as promoted by Obama:

    "In crackpot realism," Mills wrote, "a high-flying moral rhetoric is joined 
with an opportunist crawling among a great scatter of unfocused fears and 
demands ... The expectation of war solves many problems of the crackpot realists 
... instead of the unknown fear, the anxiety without end, some men [sic] of the 
higher circles prefer the simplification of known catastrophe ... They know of 
no solutions to the paradoxes of the Middle East and Europe, the Far East and 
Africa except the landing of Marines ... they prefer the bright, clear problems 
of war -- as they used to be. For they still believe that 'winning' means 
something, although they never tell us what..."

That sort of realism seem to me Obamaism avant la lettre.

Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.

Amen.  --CGE


John W. wrote:
> 
> Your argument makes sense, Carl, as far as it goes.
> 
> What I've seen on this list all along is basically two groups, the Realists
> and the Idealists.  (Have I said this before?)  I place myself in the former
> group for the most part.
> 
> The Realist - which would include most of the readers of this list - says,
> "Yes, let's learn all we can about Obama, watch him like a hawk, continue to
> express our dissent with certain of his policies in the strongest possible
> terms.  But meanwhile, let's give him a bit of leeway, recognizing that a
> thoughtful leader CAN change and grow in response to events and to public
> pressure, and that in the Real World compromise is always necessary.  We're
> not gonna get all we want, but half a loaf is better than none.  Especially
> after the famine of the Bush/Cheney years."
> 
> The Idealist - of whom you, Carl, are the principal spokesperson, joined by
> Neil and a couple of others - says, "My way is the Right Way, because I am a
> highly Moral Person!  If I don't get everything I want, I'm gonna throw a
> temper tantrum, take my ball, and go home!"
> 
> Of course, I'm caricaturing the Idealist just a bit, but not too terribly
> much.  I'll hasten to say, Carl, that I always appreciate your perspective
> and insights, and would be disappointed if you ceased to make those things
> available to us.  You keep me on my intellectual toes, and inform me of much
> that is valuable.  So do the other Idealists, when they express themselves on
> this list.  But like any extremist, you'd be dangerous if you were a Doer and
> not just a Talker, no matter how benevolent you think your goals and motives
> are.  As a suicide bomber, you'd undermine your own cause and that of the
> rest of us.
> 
> I suppose, Carl, that you and I are among the few professing Christians on
> this list.  I'm normally not much of a prayer, but recently I've found myself
> praying for Obama several times a day - for his safety and, equally
> importantly, that he would seek and receive wisdom (as opposed to mere
> knowledge) so as to guide our Ship of State properly.  You could do worse
> than to spend just a fraction of the time you spend digging up dirt on Obama
> in praying for him.  Ah, well, maybe you DO pray for Obama.
> 
> Now feel free, of course, to refute my points, pick my words apart, and quote
> Edward de Vere or some obscure Greek philsopher.
> 
> John Wason