[Peace-discuss] Bellicose rhetoric???

[Morton K. Brussel]

…That which we don't know is what People call god, which shows its  
emptiness.

--mkb

On Nov 11, 2008, at 10:05 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:

> I agree that we don't know the answer to the question, Why is there  
> anything instead of nothing?
>
> But that answer (which we don't know) is "what people have called  
> God," as Thomas Aquinas says.
>
>
> LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
>> You can ask all you want; but that does not mean that there are  
>> any answers
>> that are The Answer.  Thus, the exercise can turn into intellectual
>> masturbation, which may give some pleasure although it may not  
>> furnish such
>> pleasure to all.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
>> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G.
>> Estabrook
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:00 PM
>> To: Morton K. Brussel
>> Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Bellicose rhetoric???
>> The universe just is, and we can't ask about it?
>> Morton K. Brussel wrote:
>>> I submit that gods have no substance to answer this question.  
>>> They are totally insubstantial.
>>> My guess is there has never been "nothing". There's no need to  
>>> question existence; it's axiomatic. --mkb
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 11, 2008, at 8:27 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is there anything instead of nothing, Mort?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Morton K. Brussel wrote:
>>>>> All this preaching on this list!  Perhaps I can insert the  
>>>>> opinion that "God"
>>>>> (or gods) are totally empty concepts, explaining nothing, but  
>>>>> giving rise to
>>>>> endless ratiocination.  --mkb
>>>>> On Nov 10, 2008, at 10:35 AM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>> God is not a necessary component of morality for the simple  
>>>>>> reason that God
>>>>>> -- the answer (which we do not know) to the question, "Why is  
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> anything instead of nothing?" -- is not a component of anything.
>>>>>> God is not a thing in the universe -- we can't point to  
>>>>>> something in the universe as the reason for the existence of  
>>>>>> the universe -- and God and the
>>>>>>  universe don't add up to two. (Two of what would that be?   
>>>>>> Two things?
>>>>>> But God is not thing in the universe, etc.)
>>>>>> Morality is a component of human nature (for the existence of  
>>>>>> which God of
>>>>>> course is the reason, as for everything), as grammar is a  
>>>>>> component of language. Just as an intelligent visitor from  
>>>>>> Mars would think that all
>>>>>> humans were speaking one language with regional variations, so  
>>>>>> human ethics
>>>>>>  might be regarded as the rules (or grammar) for humans' being  
>>>>>> together --
>>>>>> with some interesting regional variations... (That's what  
>>>>>> makes horse racing, or at least philosophical argument -- and  
>>>>>> literature.)
>>>>>> Well over a thousand years of Christian philosophical  
>>>>>> reflection took it as
>>>>>> a commonplace that the Decalogue is not a set of rules imposed  
>>>>>> from outside, as it were, that might have been different, but  
>>>>>> rather rational
>>>>>> conclusions from reflection on what it is to be human.  (They  
>>>>>> did think it
>>>>>> was a little hard to derive the 3rd/4th Commandment -- there  
>>>>>> are different
>>>>>> numbering systems -- this way.)
>>>>>> Christian theologians thought that, although ethics could be  
>>>>>> descried rationally, that took effort (and time) -- hence all  
>>>>>> that literature -- and
>>>>>> so God generously provided in the Ten Commandments as it were  
>>>>>> an operating
>>>>>> manual ("documentation," we would say) for being human.
>>>>>> More on this from me (quoting others), if you want, at "The  
>>>>>> Subversive Commandments," <http://www.counterpunch.org/ 
>>>>>> estabrook03292005.html>. --CGE
>>>>>> John W. wrote:
>>>>>>> ... I'd be more interested in hearing one or both of you  
>>>>>>> Bible scholars
>>>>>>> explain to Jenifer why God is a necessary component of  
>>>>>>> morality.  Or
>>>>>>> conversely, how one can be moral without a belief in God.  
>>>>>>> John Wason
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