[Peace-discuss] Pentagon Challenge: Ask Iraqis How Many Have Died

[Robert Naiman]

Les Roberts et al from Johns Hopkins did a study (the "Lancet study")
which was dismissed by the Administration.

You don't seem to appreciate that the question of the Iraqi death toll
is special. There are a lot of bad things that have happened. Many of
them are openly acknowledged.

So, for example, many articles have appeared in the mainstream press
about the flood of refugees to Jordan and Syria. These articles
regularly cite UN and other estimates of the refugee flow. There is
essentially no dispute about the scale.

So, the issue of refugees is tremendously important, and if you were
going to ask questions to try to understand what's going on in Iraq,
that's something you might ask about, and if you asked about it, you'd
learn more about it, and that would be good.

But it's not urgent to do so, because we already have estimates of the
refugee flow which are not disputed.

In contrast, when the scale of death in Iraq since 2003 is mentioned
at all - which is rarely - one still sees the Iraq Body Count tally
invoked as if it were an estimate of overall Iraqi deaths. This leads
to an estimate that is 1/10 of what the Lancet Study would suggest.

If the Pentagon - the US government - were required to collect data
that formed the basis of an estimate, and if that estimate were an
order of magnitude higher than the Iraq Body Count tally, that would
settle the question, forever.

And how many Iraqis have died is an important thing to know.

You're right that the Pentagon is already doing surveys, and could ask
that question now. But from the point of view of Congressional
intervention, the point of leverage is a new program.

On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Jenifer Cartwright
<jencart13 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I agree w/ you, Bob... But hasn't Johns Hopkins (or ?) already gather
> that information, and didn't the Pentagon deny its accuracy? Of course, that
> and other questions should be included in the Pentagon's current surveys --
> how many jobs lost, houses destroyed, persons physically or
> mentally/emotionally impaired, school and work days missed, money lost, etc
> etc -- the list of what the Pentagon should research is endless. My point
> was that the Pentagon is already doing surveys, and adding yr/my questions
> could and should be done now -- it shouldn't take 3 years (and all those
> millions of dollars).
>  --Jenifer
>
> --- On Mon, 10/13/08, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Pentagon Challenge: Ask Iraqis How Many Have
> Died
> To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
> Cc: "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 10:42 PM
>
> It's one thing to say that the country is a mess. It's another thing
> to estimate the number of Iraqi dead. The US government has studiously
> avoided this. This is a point that should be pressed.
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Jenifer Cartwright
> <jencart13 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Three YEARS??? This would be embarrassing if it weren't so obscene.
> The
>> Pentagon has already been conducting polls on a regular basis, and it has
>> MORE than enuff info to show that the country is a mess and that the US
> has
>> no business being there anymore (not that it ever did) UNLESS it plans to
>> participate in massive clean-up efforts, organize programs to make
>> restitution for the damage the US has done to Iraq and its people, and
> take
>> some of the 4 MILLION persons displaced because if the US invasion.
>>
>> How many killed?? Read about what's it's like to live in Iraq
> these days,
>> and you feel like the ones who were killed were the lucky ones.
>>
> http://thegroundtruth.blogspot.com/2008/10/pentagon-public-opinion-poll-of-iraqis.html
>>  --Jenifer
>>
>> --- On Mon, 10/13/08, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Pentagon Challenge: Ask Iraqis How Many Have Died
>> To: "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 8:14 PM
>>
>> The Washington Post reports that the Pentagon plans to poll Iraqis. By
>> asking, "How many members of your household have died since March,
> 2003?"
>> the Pentagon could construct an estimate of Iraqi deaths since the U.S.
>> invasion. Congress should require the Pentagon to do so.
>>
>>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/pentagon-challenge-ask-ir_b_134370.html
>>
>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/13/20528/149
>>
>> http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/36844
>>
>>
> http://www.opednews.com/articles/Pentagon-Challenge-Ask-Ir-by-Robert-Naiman-081013-923.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Naiman
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>
>> Ambassador Pickering on Iran Talks and Multinational Enrichment
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=kGZFrFxVg8A
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Naiman
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>
> Ambassador Pickering on Iran Talks and Multinational Enrichment
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=kGZFrFxVg8A
>
>



-- 
Robert Naiman
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org

Ambassador Pickering on Iran Talks and Multinational Enrichment
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kGZFrFxVg8A