[Peace-discuss] The money was there all along

Sat Oct 18 18:20:22 CDT 2008

Well, not to quibble, Jenifer, but

"No subprime/foreclosures here that I'm aware of... "

isn't at all "in general,"  but is indeed about individuals and their 
situations. You don't mention any clustering of subprimes or 
foreclosures in any "neighborhoods"; there's no reference to "North 
Prospect" or "West Champaign" as in your other statements; the 
statement is just thrown out -- there are none "that I'm aware of."

And the follow-up statement:

"...tho' of course pay day loan parlors have sprung up along Prospect 
Avenue (heading twds all the box stores)"

has nothing necessarily to do with subprime lending practices and 
foreclosures and the various people victimized.  The two concepts are 
not mutually inclusive, and stringing them together with an ellipsis 
doesn't make factual a presumed relationship between the two 
entities.  It simply is not there.

But, also, too, the "general" neighborhoods of North Prospect, West 
Champaign, and others, that you do mention with regard to commercial 
development, are made up of individuals at the very core of that 
commercialism.

I think that our views are probably similar.  I was simply trying to 
concretize what seemed like overly general and nebulous statements on 
your part -- that to me were very misleading and mixed apples with 
oranges.  'nuff said.

Karen

At 05:37 PM 10/18/2008, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>I was speaking of CU in general, Karen. I am well aware that 
>individuals have been and are struggling, and also that many have 
>been and are being treated badly (which I tho't I'd acknowledged w/ 
>my reference to the pay day loan parlors on Prospect Avenue -- 
>sorry, I guess that wasn't very obvious).
>  --Jenifer
>
>--- On Sat, 10/18/08, Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>From: Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The money was there all along
>To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
>Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 4:55 PM
>
>
>That you're "aware of," Jenifer.  My small-debt consolidation loan
>
>was turned into a mortgage (based on equity in the house) and
>disappeared (was sold off, "bundled off") a month after I took out
>the loan in June 1997.  This was long before any of these terms --
>bundling, subprime, predatory lender, housing bubble -- hit the media
>for public consumption and certainly before I'd ever heard the terms
>and thought they might apply to me.  I had no idea what had happened
>-- only that the mortgage had literally disappeared (no mortgage
>statements, no end-of-year), my home and sense of well-being were in
>sudden jeopardy, and I had little to do with the making of it all.
>
>I've been chasing it down for the past 10+ years inside and outside
>the court system.  And I don't live in a neighborhood that anyone
>would think of as capable of being red-lined.  It's all-white and
>professional and semi-professional here.  The current grab for
>property and land (equity, money) has little or nothing to do with
>conventional red-lining.  Only BECAUSE it's now being wielded against
>more than the black or minority population is it being recognized for
>what it is and white people are suddenly sitting upright and taking
>notes.  "Wait a minute here...it's not only THEM...it's US
>too...whooaa!"
>
>It's all around you, Jenifer -- you're just not aware of it.
>
>Karen
>
>
>At 04:30 PM 10/18/2008, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> >You may be right, Karen. My "evidence" is based on the obscene
>and
> >incredible amount of growth -- North Prospect, West Champaign
> >(yikes), even Downtown Champaign -- some of which  may be part of
> >the larger financial bubble and about to burst (tho' I haven't
>heard
> >that there're any fears of that). No subprime/foreclosures here that
> >I'm aware of... tho' of course pay day loan parlors have sprung up
> >along Prospect Avenue (heading twds all the box stores).
> >  --Jenifer
> >
> >--- On Sat, 10/18/08, Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >From: Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net>
> >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The money was there all along
> >To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
> >Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 2:39 PM
> >
> >
> >Jenifer, I wasn't aware that the CU community was doing all that well
> >-- or even that it "seemed to be."  The last map of states and
>metro
> >areas I saw listed CU as either already in a state of depression or
> >"at risk" for being so. As was Chicago.
> >
> >Karen
> >
> >
> >At 02:07 PM 10/18/2008, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> > >Karen,
> > >John gave an excellent answer to my question, but just to clarify...
> > >I meant enuff to keep the US economy afloat -- maintain the trade
> > >balance, or tip it in the US's favor, or whatever it's called.
>The
> > >reason that CU is doing so well economically (or so it seems) is
> > >that there is a huge influx of $$$ bro't in from outside the
> > >community by undergraduate students... and of course there are all
> > >the gov't- and corp-funded grants, etc... another example of the
>US
> > >"selling" education (one of the things on John's list),
> >tho' that
> > >mostly moves funds domestically, rather than infusing them from
> > >abroad. John also pointed out that in many ways we are less able to
> > >compete than we were 30 yrs ago, and I guess, need to find other ways
>to do
> >so.
> > >  --Jenifer
> > >
> > >
> > >--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >From: Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net>
> > >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The money was there all along
> > >To: jencart13 at yahoo.com
> > >Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > >Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 1:18 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >Enough for what, Jenifer?  To keep some kind of "balance"?
>My
> >(very
> > >basic and woefully inadequate) understanding of this is that whatever
> > >isn't sold directly is used indirectly to make other govts war
>with
> > >each other and to keep 'em in line so that they support, or at
>least
> > >don't go against too seriously, US policies.  Coercion (at the end
>of
> > >a gun) to make the rest of the world float our worthless paper is
> > >about the size of it, I guess.  Pretty sad state of affairs.
>There's
> > >good reason for the rest of the world to hate Bush et al. -- and this
> > >country overall too.
> > >
> > >Karen
> > >
> > >
> > >At 01:00 PM 10/17/2008, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> > > >Good point, Karen. And at the rate the world is going, that's
>one
> > > >bubble (selling of arms abroad) that isn't likely to burst.
>But is
> > > >that enuff, w/ all our other manufacturing jobs exported (and
>which
> > > >ain't comin' back)?
> > > >  --Jenifer
> > > >
> > > >--- On Fri, 10/17/08, Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
> > > >From: Karen Capel <kcapel at sbcglobal.net>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The money was there all along
> > > >To: "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> > > >Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > >Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:07 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Jenifer said:
> > > >"I have been wondering lately if the US produces anything to
>sell
> > > >abroad anymore...."
> > > >
> > > >Yes, Jenifer, there is.  Think: "the machinery of war."
> > > >
> > > >Karen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Message: 1
> > > > >Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:38:06 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >From: Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The money was there all along
> > > > >To: "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>,
>"E.
> >Wayne
> > > >Johnson" <ewj at pigs.ag>
> > > > >Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I have been wondering lately if the US produces anything to
>sell
> > > > >abroad anymore, now that the service industry has replaced
> > > > >manufacturing re providing jobs. Agricultural products, I
> >guess...
> > > > >at least until somebody figures out how to turn wheat and
> >soybeans
> > > > >into gasoline.
> > > > >  --Jenifer
> > > > >
> > > > >--- On Fri, 10/17/08, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The money was there all along
> > > > >To: "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
> > > > >Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > > >Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 5:01 AM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Yes.
> > > > >
> > > > >But that's hard work sometimes.  :)
> > > > >
> > > > >John W. wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >Well, either way - borrowing the money or
>"printing" it
> >-
> > > >it's
> > > > >fiscally irresponsible and unsustainable.  That was my
>point.  A
> > > > >viable economy has to be based on ACTUAL productivity -
>making
> >REAL
> > > > >things that the world needs - and not just on shuffling
>papers
> > > > >around to create the illusion of prosperity.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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