Fw: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

[John W.]

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:10 PM, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:

Maybe I am an ignorant working class " simpleton " , but I have never had
> anything in common with these fascist hate mongers !
>
> Nor did my parents nor my grandparents !
>
> WE had black people as guests and friends in our home and I had black
> friends who came to my house for the day to play, during the period 1967 -
> 1972, when it was not a popular thing to do so, and my parents recevieved "
> snide and vicious " remarks from SOME of the neighbors ( not the majority ).
>
> My grandmother was a laundry Worker at the White Line Laundry ( corner of
> Neil and Daniel - most recently JBJ's ) during the 1930's and 40's, when
> half of the Workers there were poor whites ( mostly Irish ) and African
> Americans, who united and formed a Union and were arrested multiple times by
> the Champaign Police.
>
> I remember when I was 5- 8 years old ( 1962 - 1965 ) going to funerals for
> some of her Black co-workers on Norh 4th street at the funeral home that is
> still there, during a VERY racially charged time when most white people were
> afraid to travel north of University Ave, between the I.C. Railroad Tracks
> on the west, and Lincoln Ave. on the east, especially after sundown.
>
> I contend that the Becks, Limbaughs, Dobbs, and Hannitys do not have nor
> have they ever had ( going back to the 1930's with the fascist radio priest
> Father Coughlin ( sp. ) )  the support of the majority of Americans.
>
> David J.


Like Laurie, Dave, I suggest that yours was a rather unique upbringing,
certainly not the norm for a white boy growing up in the early 1960s.  I
grew up in a white working class neighborhood on the south side of Chicago
in the 1950s and 1960s.  There were NO blacks in the community where I
lived, period, and the "N" word was used as freely as any other word.  Not
only was racial prejudice and stereotyping rampant, but it wasn't until I
got to high school that I met boys of my own age who had actual thoughts
about current events, and talked about something other than sports.

Even in my high school, whose student body was about 30% black, there was
very little fraternizing between the black and white students.  The black
kids came from their neighborhood east of Vincennes Ave. and entered the HS
by the east door; the white kids came from the west and entered by the west
door.  We passed each other in the hallways, but that was about it.  It
wasn't until many years later that I learned anything of what life was like
for my black classmates.

We've ventured rather far afield from the original discussion of Lou Dobbs
and freedom of speech, but I agree with Laurie that racism, xenophobia, etc.
have a long history in America, and the right-wing talking heads have no
trouble finding an audience for their vicious views.

John Wason




> ----- Original Message -----

From: "LAURIE SOLOMON" <LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET> To: "'C. G. Estabrook'" <
> galliher at illinois.edu>
> Cc: "'unionyes'" <unionyes at ameritech.net>; "'Peace-discuss List'" <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:44 PM
>
> Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous
>
>
> Who says I was?  I am sure that I am not totally exempt and what exemptions
> I have may come from a set of more or less than ordinary - if not unique -
> biographically determined experience or history.  This history may not have
> significantly altered the nature of my character but it did effect the
> content.  In short I hate and am prejudiced against different people than
> them and maybe most other Americans, my enemies are different than theirs
> and maybe most other Americans , my fears are different than theirs and
> maybe most other Americans, etc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. G. Estabrook [mailto:galliher at illinois.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:43 PM
> To: LAURIE SOLOMON
> Cc: 'unionyes'; 'Peace-discuss List'
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous
>
> How were you able to escape these defects?
>
>
> LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
>
>> Very simply and to the point the people of the U.S. , for the most
>> part,are
>>
> and have been inherently  all the things that Dobbs, Beck, Hannity,Limbaugh
>>
> et al stand for. They comprise a natural audience for these commentators
>
> and
>
>> those like them and, therefore, represent a significant demand for their
>>
> type
>
>> of commentary, which can be denied and ignored at one's own peril.
>>
>>
>>
>> To elaborate:
>>
>> If anything these commentators are catering to the inherent racism,
>> intolerance,  ethnic bigotry, religious prejudices, social Dawinian
>>
> biases,
>
>> fearfulness, desires for conformity, love of violence, etc. that is part
>>
> and
>
>> parcel of America and its people.  The people already have these traits
>>
> and
>
>> have no need for corporations or the corporate establishment to instill,
>> encourage, or bring out such attitudes and values since they pre-existed
>>
> the
>
>> rise of corporations in the US and of corporate America.  Hence, they are
>>
> not
>
>> the creatures of corporate power, money or spin.  To be sure, contemporary
>> corporations make use of the existence of these attitudes and values for
>> their own purposes - often to maintain control over the workings of the
>> society so that it works in their interests - whenever possible.  However,
>> the corporate establishment is not the source of these attitudes and
>>
> values.
>
>> Hence there exists a significantly large native group who hold these and
>> similar values, beliefs, and attitudes which make up a natural audience
>>
> for
>
>> the Dobbs. Becks et al which create a demand for what Dobbs, beck et al
>>
> are
>
>> giving them.  To deny this or to minimize it is to play ostrich and stick
>> one's head in the ground.
>
>
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