Fw: [Peace-discuss] Fw: We're unstoppable
unionyes
unionyes at ameritech.net
Tue Aug 18 21:06:32 CDT 2009
----- Original Message -----
From: unionyes
To: E. Wayne Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: We're unstoppable
Wayne,
I really like the first 80 % of your posting, especially the " stupid " and the " evil " parties of Tom Wood's book.
What is interesting is that right before reading your e-mail, I had just gotten off the phone with a friend of mine in St. Louis who was at that townhall meeting that has been all the talk and accusations back and forward ( as the one view from the e-mail you forwarded ).
Well guess what, many of your assumptions as well as your analogy from Wood's book described to a tee what went down at that townhall meeting in St. Louis where the fight occured.
This guy hates both the " tea party " people as he calls them and the local St. Louis democratic party functionaries ( who he knows pretty well ).
Anyway, he said that the anti- public healthcare crazies and the obama can do no wrong dems were at each others throats within a matter of minutes of the begining of the meeting.
No One could get a word in edge way between these two groups.
The Obama can do no wrong dems were ALSO shouting at a few people, who were finally able to get a few words in, who spoke against the Obama plan as a phoney public option and advocated a REAL public option ( Medicare for All ).
Anyway, he did say though that a few of the anti-public healthcare people started shoving the obama dems, when the nose to nose woofing wasn't making anyone back down.
A 62 year old Black minister ( who was not part of the yelling match ) who happened to be a Green candidate in the last election for adlerman for the city of St. Louis, was singled out and ganged-up on and beaten ( dislocating his shoulder ) by the " tea party " crazies.
My friend knows this minister and he said that he is NOT an " in your face " type of person at all.
He said he saw the YOUTUBE video that was posted on the web, accusing the SEIU Obama can do know wrong dems of starting the fight.
He said that posted video was edited to make it look that way, but he said that being there, the reality was much different.
Basicly two groups of opposing idiots ( like drunks at a high school football game as he put it ) going beserk and preventing a real debate and serious questions being asked.
Now, what Robert Dunn said what happened to his father in Tampa, I could see happening if a similar set of circumstances existed there.
And in Tampa, it very well could of been the SEIU members who started a fight.
To me, this is exactley what the health industrial complex special interests want.
Chaos and the prevention of an exchange of ideas and facts.
It also sets up " the limits of debate " ; the all private, no one should have the choice of a REAL public option on the one side..... and the phoney corporate public option of Obama's plan that would subsidize the private health insurance industry with our tax dollars and insure very few people in the process.
David J.
----- Original Message -----
From: E. Wayne Johnson
To: Ricky Baldwin
Cc: Peace-discuss
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: We're unstoppable
Ricky, you can google out a verification as easily as I can. I dont think
the allegations are untrue but I chuckle at the rhetoric on both sides.
I am convinced that the US health care delivery system is disgracefully Awful,
and I would compare those who manage it quite unfavourably with such nobilities as
wolves, buzzards, and maggots.
The technological level is good but there are numerous glaring deficiencies in
what is being delivered. There are huge problems with the way the delivery
is done. Americans are being held hostage by the medical-pharmaceutical
legal-regulatory industrial complex, and most Americans are so deluded and unaware
that they hardly notice how badly and disgracefully they are being ripped off.
Americans are afraid to die, terrified in fact, and to one with a "sick" sense of humour, its
simply hilarious to see them in action.
I am constantly reminded of Tom Woods's classic statement about the Stupid Party (clearly the Dems)
and the Evil Party (clearly the Republicans), and Bipartisanship being when they get together in cooperation and
do something that is truly Stupid and Evil. It is quite a circus seeing the two sides of this fiasco turning
similar rhetoric and tactics on one another. They really aint so much different and quite frankly I dont
see either side working for anything that could remotely be identified as any sort of genuine reform.
To use a worn out analogy, it's like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
I would favour a cooperative-based system with dramatically reduced regulations, dramatically increased
consumer education and transparency, and a complete destruction of the predatory tort system, and massive increases
in recruitment of personnel into the medical field. Licensure could be continued, but the penalties for lack of licensure
would be non-existent. Medical care facilities could choose to have licensed or unlicensed practitioners, and it would
be the responsibility of the consumer to choose between whether to trust in a licensed quack or an oft more
competent unlicensed quack. There are more ideas along this line.
Single-payer doesnt fix the real problems, it just increases the burden on the system. I am suggesting a dramatic
reduction in the medical care burden via a common-sense approach.
On 8/18/2009 5:46 PM, Ricky Baldwin wrote:
Is there a source on this, Wayne? You see, the reason I want to know is to assess the credibility of this reported event and other allegations therein. That's important, because anybody can make up anything. For example, in this email you forward below the author - whoever that is - refers to the Obama Admin's health care proposals as "socialist" (the baldest nonsense, no matter whether you think the plan is good or not). Such rantings in my opinion probably impugn the witness here substantially, but since I don't actually know what happened at this event I would like to keep an open mind.
However, this is already pretty difficult given this characterization of support for the "socializing" health care as originating with MoveOn and "hired thugs". As you may know Tim Johnson's meeting locally in the library was quite different. Supporters of the much-touted "public option" and the much-maligned "single payer" idea were not "hired thugs" but local community members dedicated to health care and organized by excellent organizers - whether you agree with them or not. Perhaps this did happen somewhere. We can't tell from this anonymous report.
You may be right that purists on both sides are wrong, and maybe if we had a beer at the White House or something we'd agree that there is good and bad in the plan. The fact remains that in the richest, most powerful country on earth millions of people are without real health care options, most of them children and older Americans, some of them AWARE-istas from way back and dedicated individuals to the peace and social justice, others very good people who may be dedicated to helping their fellow human beings in other ways, or people who have worked hard their whole lives only to be robbed of their health care and so on at the end.
Many will eventually die because of the simple neglect of their society, perhaps after last-minute attempts to save their lives at ERs across the nation - which the opponents of reform will ultimately pay for along with the rest of us - but not as high a price as those without health care.
I claim this is what this debate is ultimately about: what do we value most, our creature comforts (SUVs, TVs - more sets than people in the average home, according to Nielsen http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/more-than-half-the-homes-in-us-have-three-or-more-tvs/, etc.), narrow political or ideological advantage, or our fellow human beings.
Some high-minded folks on this list will likely claim I'm being simplistic or disingenuous, but that's what it really comes down to, no matter whose name's on the bill, who supports it, what color their skin or electoral map fill, public or private, perfect or imperfect: what will do the most good for the most people? How can we get the most we can and make it stick?
I think that's probably single-payer, which it appears we won't get this time (but we shouldn't give up), which the Obama plan isn't of course. But consider this analogy: you're suddenly homeless, but you have a job with an office. You can sleep there, but you'd have to be out at 6am every weekday morning. The building has toilets, and there's a gym where you can shower (group shower - at 6:30am usually occupied by jocks and ROTC recruits). You're unlikley to find better for six months or so, but by then hopefully you can marshall your resources and try again. OK, the analogy isn't perfect, but it's authentic and the life lesson applies: you don't turn your nose up at options when you're desperate, you get what you can and keep trying.
My 2c.
Ricky
"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
--- On Tue, 8/18/09, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: We're unstoppable
To: "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:01 PM
This is an actual item I received today. I am convinced that the groups on
both "sides" of the health care debate and debacle are in error.
Left-Wing THUGS Attack Americans Opposed to "ObamaCare
It's getting ugly out there. All across the country, left-wing extremists are disrupting congressional town-hall meetings
with venomous attacks on anyone who voices their objections to Barack Obama's plans to socialize American health care.
· At a town hall meeting with Rep. Kathy Castor in Tampa, Florida, as she was introduced,
the reaction was overwhelmingly against her, with boos and chants of "You work for us."
In the lobby, you could hear the counter of Planned Parenthood representatives shouting,
"Healthcare Now." Shortly thereafter, violence erupted, where three big "goons" came out
and started pushing and roughing up the people in line and in the hallway, at one point
even using a chokehold on one of the people. Police officers on the scene did nothing to
prevent the violence being perpetrated on these citizens trying to exercise their free
speech rights -- citizens who far outnumbered those who were allowed to stay.
· At a town hall meeting with Rep. Russ Carnahan in St. Louis, Missouri, police arrested six people for assaulting constituents who
were opposed to the health care takeover. As reported locally, "Kenneth Gladney, 38, a conservative activist from St. Louis, said he
was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with 'Don't tread on me' printed on them. He spoke to the
Post-Dispatch from the emergency room at St. John's Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was awaiting treatment for injuries
to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur
against him before the attack."
Many Representatives have announced they won't be holding any town-hall meetings after seeing that their constituents are OPPOSED
to the socialist "ObamaCare". We've got a plan to fight back against these radical left-wingers. Barack Obama's "Organizing for America" group is sending out
Alerts to get their people to come out to townhalls to shout us down with "powerful voices". MoveOn.org has hired skilled "grassroots
organizers" -- meaning, people like the union thugs in those videos -- who are working at townhalls across the country to give the impression
that there's ANY support for Obama's plans to socialize health care in America. They've built new online tools to track events
across the country -- and to make sure MoveOn members turn out at each one.
They're raising hundreds of thousands of dollars to push their far-left agenda, against the true grassroots uprising we're witnessing in
America.
WE'RE FIGHTING BACK -- but we need the help of patriotic Americans like YOU to succeed!
Can you chip in a donation today to support our work?
If the bullying tactics of the left-wing goons are successful at suppressing the only true grassroots voices our senators and representatives
hear over the recess, we'll have a hard time stopping the socialist plans of Obama, Pelosi and Reid in September.
That's why we're getting the word out about Town Hall meetings across the nation -- we've created a new ad for television and radio,
we're sending millions of email to our members to fight back with a strong town hall turnout, we're offering personalized blast faxes to
every single member of Congress, and we're activating an energized network of on-the-ground constituents who aren't afraid to speak
out against ObamaCare and the bullying tactics of the Left. This month could decide the future of health care in America-and we're already one week in. If you've been sitting on the sidelines,
now's the time
On 8/18/2009 3:07 PM, Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
Definitely not just another Dem rubber stamp. Glad that Dean's still a staunch supporter of public option... and getting a lot of air play these days, even a bit on MSM.
--Jenifer
--- On Tue, 8/18/09, Gov. Howard Dean, Democracy for America <info at democracyforamerica.com> wrote:
Jenifer -
Here's what I know: When we work together, we're unstoppable.
As my brother Jim said yesterday, the media has it wrong. The campaign for the choice of a public health insurance option will be over only if we quit or we've won. That decision is ours to make. Not the media's decision - Not the insurance industry's decision - It's our decision.
We have the power and we're going to win.
Make no mistake, victory won't happen overnight. Just like President Obama's campaign for President, this campaign is a long haul. Congress returns in September for the final stretch to pass reform by the end of the year.
We must have the resources to fuel this fight. If we raise $200,000 by Monday, we can hit back immediately. Congress will know we're not backing down in the face of pressure. We're standing up to get the job done.
CONTRIBUTE RIGHT NOW AND DELIVER THE RESOURCES TO WIN
Victory takes courage, conviction, and commitment. It takes you. The power to change America is in your hands. It always has been.
Thank you, Jenifer, for everything you do to win.
-Howard
Governor Howard Dean, M.D.
Founder, Democracy for America
Democracy for America relies on you and the people-power of more than one million members to fund the grassroots organizing and training that delivers progressive change on the issues that matter. Please Contribute Today and support our mission.
Paid for by Democracy for America, http://democracyforamerica.com/ and not authorized by any candidate. Contributions to Democracy for America are not deductible for federal income tax purposes.
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