[Peace-discuss] Barney Frank's finest hour - Nazis and clunkers

[Matt Reichel]

I am very surprised to see Barney Frank handle this situation so appropriately and poignantly.

The imbeciles that have been disrupting these town hall meetings to advocate against health care reform are the closest thing this country has to Nazis. In my view, universal health care and universal higher education are two pillars of first world democracy. As long as we have neither, we are neither a "first world" country nor a democracy. Those who impede this progress, with vile psycho babble, are fascists. Their "free speech" should not, in any way, be respected. Sure, they are free to speak, but that doesn't mean we should listen.

Bravo Barney Frank!

Best,
Matt
www.mattreichel.us
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:24:26 -0700
From: baldwinricky at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Barney Frank's finest  hour - Nazis and clunkers
To: galliher at illinois.edu; jbw292002 at gmail.com
CC: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net

It's certainly true that there is no point in arguing with some people.  Chomsky said it more harshly than I would once, maybe more often, that even to engage with Nazis and people like that you give up part of your humanity.

When it comes down to it I think Frank's remarks were so great because he voiced what many of us have been feeling about the phenomenon represented by the questioner at that event.  No, Obama was not my first choice, or that of many of us, and his health care plan is miles from what we are pretty sure we need.  But these folks come at it from the opposite angle.  Not that they're just on the wrong team or something, but the fact is that if Obama's plan to them is like Nazism, then any of the ideas most of us on this list would support, for example, would indeed ring a bit Neptune-ish.

I'll resist the
 temptation to drag out the "from another planet" analogy any further, as it could get old fast.

Back on Earth, what Americans like her need, to paraphrase Chomsky again, is denazification.  Now it may be because of the superdeveloped US PR virus.  It may be the fault of schools, churches, or other notorious mind control whipping boys (pick your favorite).  But it is real and the effect is deadly.  Blame Obama and big-money Dems, and rightly so - it's easy to do - but right there in that clip you see a monstrous reason we can't get to the real alternatives we know and love to debate, a big reason in my opinion we'll be damn lucky to get anything much, even with a fight.

If your clunker won't get you to Rantoul, don't put your money on Chicago.

Ricky



"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn

--- On Wed, 8/19/09, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] in case you haven't seen Barney Frank's finest  hour
To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
Cc: "Ricky Baldwin" <baldwinricky at yahoo.com>, "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 8:19 PM


On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:


Wouldn't it have been better if he'd found out why the woman made the comparison she did and what the source of her information was, and refuted it, if he could?



This bit of low theater just keeps the argument going -- which may after all be the point.  --CGE
You apparently haven't spent much time with people who think differently than you do, Carl.  Or else your own critical thinking skills are deteriorating.


As Barney Frank said, there' s no point in even trying to engage such people in dialogue, because they truly do come from a different planet.  The discussion/argument can go on for days and days without any rapprochement whatsoever, because the parties start out with diametrically opposed assumptions, definitions, first principles.  There's no ONE source of their information, but rather a lifetime of disinformation.  The propaganda you're always insisting is so effective in the United States, Carl.


Look at the lengthy discussion we recently had on this very list - over 60 posts, if memory serves - about whether or not pressuring CNN to get rid of Lou Dobbs would constitute the "banning" of his freedom of speech.  We on this list are people who basically AGREE on first principles, yet we couldn't even arrive at a consensus on that.  Talking past each other, we were.  Imagine, now, trying to discuss political issues with a person who says such things as "Keep the government out of my Medicare!"


As I've said before, you need to get out more, man.

John Wason

 


Ricky Baldwin wrote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8



Ricky Baldwin



"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn



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