[Peace-discuss] Re: petition period has begun for next year's D and R primaries

[C. G. Estabrook]

I thought we agreed that that's what "police provocateurs do ... if and when
they can ... provoking confrontation."


LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
>> As far as being active is concerned, I've always thought that the cure for 
>> bad speech is more speech.  Do you think it's something else?
> 
> And that may be precisely why there is so much verbal diarrhea on this list 
> and in the activist community which tends to identify action with speaking 
> (is that a form of Identity politics or is it just the academic predilection 
> of the current set of actors in this community).  Being active might 
> encompass such things as taking to the streets, engaging in a general strike,
> stopping the establishment machine from carrying on business as usual, etc.
> rather than oral and written discussions, debates, pontifications, quoting
> from academic and non-academic scribbling of other arm chair analysts who
> often make their livings from teaching in academia, lecturing and writing of
> books, blogs, and other articles.  Maybe the cure for bad speech is the sorts
> of non-verbal and often physical responses that it brings in other parts of
> the world like Europe, Asia, and Latin America.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net 
> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G. 
> Estabrook Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:43 PM To: Matt Reichel Cc:
> ewj at pigs.ag; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss]
> Re: petition period has begun for next year's D and R primaries
> 
> Matt--
> 
> Aren't you involved in a contradiction when you say (quite rightly) "that 
> identity politics have been ruinous to the organized left" -- and then call 
> my criticism of identity politics "a pseudo-intellectual mechanism"?  Which
> is it?
> 
> As to "coming to Wayne's defense," I'm not sure he'd see it that way.  Wayne 
> has shown himself quite able to provide for his own defence in what he 
> undoubtedly sees as an attempt to establish justice, promote the general
> welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity.
> (It is however true
> 
> that -- as far as this list is concerned -- he hasn't done much to insure 
> domestic tranquility: he seems to recall the prophecy of the late Abbie 
> Hoffman, that sacred cows will make the best hamburger.)
> 
> As far as being active is concerned, I've always thought that the cure for 
> bad speech is more speech.  Do you think it's something else?
> 
> I do think it's a mistake, instead of contesting and even condemning what 
> someone says, to label it "hate speech" with the implication that it then has
> no more right to free speech.  "If you're really in favor of free speech,
> then you're in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you
> despise; otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech" [guess who].
> 
> Oh, and thank you for your congratulations on my retirement from the 
> University. Among other things, not teaching gives me more time to answer
> emails...
> 
> Regards, Carl
> 
> 
> Matt Reichel wrote:
>> I agree that class politics should be more prominent in the United States
> and
>> that identity politics have been ruinous to the organized left.
>> 
>> Nonetheless, this doesn't mean we should sit idly by while someone spews 
>> contemptible hate speech. None of the descriptors I used of Rosanna (and 
>> Wayne, by extension) were inappropriate, except for perhaps "wacko." And
> last
>> I checked this is a listserv for activists, who seem to spend too much
> time
>> staring at their computers and too little time being "active," to discuss 
>> current events. One wouldn't expect to be held to academic writing
> standards
>> on an email listserv.
>> 
>> Rosanna Pulido was using her position of influence as the candidate of a 
>> major party for national office to spread vile hate speech about gays, 
>> Latinos, blacks and working class people. This is verbatim what Nazi
> fascists
>> did in Germany. As such, I am being perfectly appropriate in calling her a 
>> hate-monger and fascist.
>> 
>> Lastly, I am ashamed to see Carl use a psuedo-intellectual mechanism, i.e. 
>> his criticism of "identity politics," to come to Wayne's defense. The
> issue
>> here is not one of "free speech," or what organizing techniques are most 
>> industrious from a left perspective. The issue here is hate speech. By all 
>> means, one has the "right" to spew it. However, as a scholar who is
> familiar
>> with the philosophical foundations of the rights discourse should know, 
>> "rights" come with "duties." In this case, the duty is to face the 
>> consequences of perpetuating lies, the typical Conservative rejection of 
>> science, and a call to bring hate upon a significant portion of the 
>> population. I am happy to know that you and your crazed defense of this 
>> society's most backward elements no longer teaches at the University.
>> 
>> Best, Matt