[Peace-discuss] In the streets

Mon Feb 2 10:40:20 CST 2009

As you said, design is one thing; practice is another. It may be that it is
lot's harder to prove a negative in most places; but, in the US, we seem to
have found a number of ways around this difficulty without having to revise
the principle that one is innocent until proven guilty - not only in a court
of law but in society at large.  Let me count the ways: 1) trial by the
media, 2) presumptive guilt by association or hearsay and rumor, 3) libelous
and slanderous listing of names on web sites by both publicly sponsored
officiated  web sites and non-official web sites, 4) presumption of guilt
based on race, ethnicity, and personal history, 5) jury instructions from
the bench that color or restrict the evidence to be considered and how it is
to be interpreted, 7) judicial structuring of the introduction of testimony
and evidentiary materials, 8) the withholding of  evidence by the
prosecution, 9) the tampering of evidence and coercing of testimony by law
enforcement and the prosecution, 10) the overcharging in order to force the
accused to plead guilty to some lesser charges, 11)  the presumption of that
the law enforcement personnel are correct and within the law in conducting
their investigations until proven otherwise by the defense, and the pro
forma issuing of court search and seizure, arrest, and other warrants as
well as the setting of bail by judges without requiring proof or tangible
evidence by law enforcement on the basis of preemptive exigencies,
suspicions, and the unsworn and undocumented say of law enforcement
personnel and prosecutors.  I could go on; but you get the point.  In the
US, "innocent until proven guilty" is honored in the breach and usually
applies to the legal settings of the criminal justice system and not to
either the civil justice system or to everyday social life.

From: Jenifer Cartwright [mailto:jencart13 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 12:19 AM
To: LAURIE SOLOMON; John W.
Cc: peace-discuss; sf-core at yahoogroups.com; C. G. Estabrook
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] In the streets

Nevertheless, I'm glad the US followed the English judicial system (innocent
until proven guilty) rather than the French system (guilty until proven
innocent). Yes, design is one thing, and implementation another, and the US
courts are far from perfect... but it still remains that it's lots harder to
prove a negative.

 --Jenifer

--- On Sun, 2/1/09, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] In the streets
To: "LAURIE SOLOMON" <LAURIE at advancenet.net>
Cc: "peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, sf-core at yahoogroups.com,
"C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 10:57 PM

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 11:24 AM, LAURIE SOLOMON <LAURIE at advancenet.net>
wrote:

Which is why - despite it being a French saying - the saying "the more
things change the more they stay the same" has become an American
description.  Until the masses of ordinary people get off their asses and
take to the streets with a willingness to shut things down and prevent
business as usual even if it means their inconvenience and discomfort, there
will be no significant change in the US - only minor symbolic reforms at the
periphery.

This is true.  But there are certain fundamental differences between French
society and American society.  In general, the law and law enforcement are
tilted much more in favor of the French citizen than of his/her American
equivalent.  French citizens frequently sue their government, and have a
decent chance of winning such suits.  French gendarmes are much less brutal
in their methods of crowd control and law enforcement in general.

All of which is to say that American citizens would be risking much MORE by
taking to the streets, with less chance of success.  And since the average
American still thinks of himself as "middle class" and buys into the Horatio
Alger myth, he doesn't want to or see the necessity of taking the risk.

Instead of the corporations and the establishment elite getting 3 trillion
of the common person's money, the government will only give them 2 3/4
trillion; and instead of demanding final control and veto over the
operations of those corporations and the use of the money, the government
will get for the public only minor symbolic control which only those behind
the closed doors will be able to know about.  Indeed, the French
demonstrations have much more authority and impact than any placard carrying
or letter writing demonstrations that we have in the US will ever have.  Our
demonstrators do not even get off the sidewalks and block traffic for fear
of being called irresponsible and losing respectability, for fear of being
arrested and getting a record or having to pay a fine, or because they do
not want to be seen as being disruptive.

-----Original Message-----
From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G.
Estabrook
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 12:46 AM
To: peace-discuss
Subject: [Peace-discuss] In the streets

      Paris When it Sizzles:

      The French Say No to Fat-Cat Bailouts                 

You have to admire the French. The ordinary people there know how to stick
up  

for themselves - instead of meekly bowing down and accepting whatever bitter

gruel the elite tries to cram down their throats. And they don't just write
a 

few angry letters (or blog posts!), or send checks to some worthy
progressive 

organization to organize a few mildly admonishing ads or press releases on
their 

behalf. Hell no, they take to the streets, by the millions, they shut things

down, they make some noise, they put their time, their jobs, and their
bodies on 

the line.

Yesterday saw another remarkable display of this national trait, as an 

astonishingly broad spectrum of the French citizenry surged through the
streets 

of Paris to express their outrage at the government's response to the
economic 

crisis. This response has been the usual doling out of billions in public
money 

for the fat cats who caused the crisis, coupled with increasing demands for 

"sacrifice" from the hoi polloi: less pay, longer hours, fewer benefits, a 

bleaker life for you and your children while the elite party on.

But on Thursday, an estimated 2.5 million people - blue-collar workers and 

white-collar professionals, educators and students, doctors and train
drivers, 

native-born and immigrants - came out to tell the government: "We are not
going 

to pay for the greed and corruption of the elite! Find another way!" The 

contrast to the stunned, herd-like reaction of the American and British
publics 

to their governments' gorging of corrupt oligarchs with no-strings largess
could 

not be more striking...

Full article at <http://www.chris-floyd.com/>

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