[Peace-discuss] Would It Kill Us to Apologize to Iran for the Coup?

Thu Feb 5 08:40:01 CST 2009

Something to keep in mind in judging whether an apology is an empty
endeavor: should all opinions have equal weight? Or should the
opinions of the victims of a crime and their descendants have greater
weight than the opinions of the perpetrators of the crime and their
descendants?

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Marti Wilkinson <martiwilki at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that making the apology is an
> empty endeavor. Sometimes it's important to do the right thing, if for no
> other reason than it's the right thing to do. Now if the US were to issue an
> apology then fail to engage in diplomatic relations with Iran then it could
> be argued that making such an overture is lacking in substance.
>
> I remember when American hostages were in Iran during the Carter
> administration.  As a middle school student I had to say the pledge of
> allegiance to the flag with my fellow students every day until they came
> home. No one ever really discussed the history of Iran and the actions of
> the United States. Instead myself and my peers were told that the Ayatollah
> Khomeini was a modern day version of the Big Bad Wolf blowing the house of
> the poor Shah down. History and civics was taught in ways that were
> favorable to the position of the United States and often areas such as our
> treatment of Native Americans and the civil rights movement were either
> given lip service or glossed over. I was a junior in college before I even
> heard the name Emmett Till, and I still consider myself to be ignorant (not
> stupid) in regards to where foreign policy is concerned.
>
> This is why we need people like Stephen Kinzer and other individuals who are
> willing to share how our actions are perceived in other lands. When my uncle
> went to Denmark to visit relatives he was confronted by people who were very
> angry with the Bush administration. He later communicated to my mother that
> it was the first time he had been taken to task over the leadership of this
> country....and he has been to many places around the world. While I doubt
> that the United States will ever be able to make full restitution for the
> harm that this nation has caused both here and overseas - we can at the very
> least make a geniune effort at reconcilation and amends. If this means
> admitting that we really F*cked up than I'm all for it.
>
> Marti
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:42 PM, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:
>>
>> I don't expect them to apologize any time soon,
>> but at the same time I don't value such an
>> apology as having any real value.
>>
>> To me, such an apology is just empty words, of the "Talk is cheap & I love
>> you is Free" variety.
>>
>> Much more valuable would be a real change in policy, closing of bases, and
>> coming home,
>> which would speak meaningful volumes more that "We're soooooo sorry, Uncle
>> al-Arabiya..."
>>
>> *
>>
>> Obama's appointments are surprisingly poor, even from the standpoint of
>> one
>> of his unrelenting detractors (like me).  You could hardly imagine much
>> worse
>> than Rahmbo, Hillary, Gates, Geithner, Ray LaHood,...  It's almost too
>> surreal
>> to make accessible comedy.
>>
>> Robert Naiman wrote:
>>
>> whenever someone suggests that the US apologize for something, some
>> people always say: but this would open the floodgates. i don't accept
>> this argument, either on moral or practical grounds.
>>
>> on moral grounds: it suggests that we should not do something right,
>> because it would "open the floodgates" for other demands that we do
>> something right.
>>
>> on practical grounds: after Clinton "near-apologized" for the US role
>> in Guatemala, life went on. There is little evidence that life as we
>> know it would grind to a halt if the US acknowledged what it did in
>> Iran in 1953 and after.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Good points, Bob... And you could extend that: most Americans have little
>> knowledge of the history of US foreign OR domestic policy, period... and
>> little sensitivity even when they do e g, Manifest Destiny/Native
>> Americans.
>>
>> Amazing to me that Obama admitted he "screwed up" re not knowing about the
>> Daschle taxes thing, but stood by his nomination, saying he'd have made a
>> good sect'y of HHS.
>>
>> Re Obama's apologising for US behavior twds Iran, well, that would open
>> the
>> floodgates for other nations (esp in the ME) to demand apologies as well.
>> So
>> I think it'd better for him to take an open, honest and concilliatory
>> approach twds Iran (and other wronged countries) going forward (as they
>> say), and (especially) to immediately give orders for the US to stop doing
>> things (e g occupying Iraq, fighting in Afghanistan, bombing Pakistan)
>> that
>> need a lot more than apologies.
>>  --Jenifer
>>
>> --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Would It Kill Us to Apologize to Iran for the
>> Coup?
>> To: "peace discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 1:08 PM
>>
>> When President Obama told al-Arabiya, "if countries like Iran are
>> willing to unclench their fist, they will find an extended hand from
>> us," the most widely reported Iranian response was President
>> Ahmedinijad's suggestion that if the U.S. truly wants good relations
>> with Iran, it should begin by apologizing for U.S. "crimes" against
>> Iran, including U.S. support for the coup that overthrew Iranian
>> democracy in 1953. Not surprisingly, there hasn't exactly been a
>> groundswell of popular support in the United States for President
>> Ahmadinejad's suggestion...
>>
>> Of course, if you know anything about the United States, you wouldn't
>> leap to the conclusion that Americans, as a country, are a bunch of
>> jerks who can't admit when they've done anything wrong. Most Americans
>> have little knowledge about the history of U.S. foreign policy in the
>> Middle East. As far as they know, the U.S. hasn't done anything wrong.
>> So why should we apologize?
>> ....
>> There is a close precedent. In 1999, President Clinton gave a
>> "near-apology" for the U.S. role in Guatemala's civil war. If
>> President Clinton could "near-apologize" for the U.S. role in
>> Guatemala, is it beyond the realm of imagination that President Obama
>> could "near-apologize" for the U.S. overthrow of democracy and
>> support
>> of dictatorship in Iran?
>>
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/would-it-kill-us-to-apolo_b_163957.html
>>
>> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/4/134155/4104
>>
>> http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/39545
>>
>> --
>> Robert Naiman
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>

-- 
Robert Naiman
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org