[Peace-discuss] Would It Kill Us to Apologize to Iran for the Coup?

[E. Wayne Johnson]

It seems to me that the most just foreign policy that we could enact is
to Just Come Home.  As MLK said, Come Home, America.

We have to recognize the principle of sovereignty.  What I do in my 
home, what Kentucky or Oregon
does as a constitutionally sovereign state, or what Lesotho does within 
its borders is generally speaking none of my neighbors business,
none of the business of the US or even the UN for that matter.  
Sovereign individuals, sovereign states,
sovereign countries.  Yes there are collectively held properties and 
responsibilities, and thus the rule of law,
but I feel that most of the time our expanding governments are taking 
meddling, plunder, intervention,
and imperialism in attitude and action to new levels.

There is no use and no excuse for the US to be extending its 
intrusiveness around the world and particularly
not at a time when its own house is in such disarray.

*
If the Spirit of God is moving you to make reparations, far be it from 
me to stop you,
but I will point out that the statute of limitations on the sins of the 
fathers is 2 to 3 generations.  There is no
point in dragging us in any deeper than that.  At some point there has 
to be a cutoff.  I am leery of any outfit
that wants to hang guilt on us.  Guilt is a pointless sort of bondage
that leads no where.  It's not exactly the same thing as responsibility 
for one's actions.
There is nothing that I can do about the failure to release the black 
slaves or the white ones in the post 1776 era.

I can do something about releasing the slaves being held under bondage 
in this era and is seems
to be more useful and meaningful.

*
My point about empty apologies did not get properly construed. 

It is meaningless to make apologies if the US does not change its actions.
We won't get done soon apologizing to all who have been wronged.

Actually I want the government to apologize to the Americans first for 
taking our rights
and plundering us, and for doing a myriad of things that it ought not be 
doing
while failing miserably in securing to us the life, liberty, property,
safety, pursuit of happiness, ..., that it was established to protect.

If the government tends to its real limited business right here at home, 
it will hardly have time to meddle with Iran,
and I will guarantee you that Iran really doesn't give a ripe red rat's 
rump about some 39-cent apology for 1953.
They just want to be left alone.  It's the continuing history of 
unrepentant meddling and harassment that makes them and me angry.
If your contrition leads you to repentance, all the better, but if your 
actions belie your words, why waste the time?

And if the Lord is moving on your heart to go overseas and help someone, 
you'd sure enough better obey,
but don't drag us as a country along on what should be your personal 
mission.  You might
fruitfully ask for our help and pique our compassion, but don't come 
with force to bind us all collectively to your personal ambitions.




Robert Naiman wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 10:24 AM, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Robert Naiman <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I'm definitely not in favor of refusal to recognize privilege. But I
>>> presume that in a non-racist society, if everyone woke up one day and
>>> discovered that by some mysterious process, a chunk of their neighbors
>>> were disproportionately excluded from the economic benefits that the
>>> society had to offer, people would move to address the disparity.
>>>       
>> You gotta be shitting me, Robert.  Surely you jest?  You have neighbors
>> right here on this mailing list who are disproportionately excluded from the
>> economic benefits that society has to offer, and it has nothing to do with
>> race, and no one on this list is doing a damned thing about it or is GOING
>> to do a damned thing about it.  Whenever I talk about poverty, lack of
>> health insurance, etc., from a personal perspective, I get a blank stare
>> from the limousine liberals.  "Get a life," they say, or "Be warmed and
>> filled," to quote the Good Book.  I daresay that most of the readers of this
>> list care more about people in Pakistan than they do about their neighbors,
>> at least in terms of doing anything pragmatic to help them.
>>
>> I'll probably live to regret that comment, but there it is.
>>     
>
> I hear and appreciate your anger and frustration, but I don't really
> follow what you're saying. Are there "limousine liberals" on this
> list? Are there people on this list who say, "Be warmed and filled?"
>
> How one should apportion one's "caring," if that is indeed the right
> way to think about it, is a complicated question. It's certainly true
> that many of us have a disproportionate focus on the impact of US
> foreign policy, at the expense, perhaps, of the impact of US domestic
> policy. Is that a moral failing? I don't think so - because we live in
> a society where there is, obviously, far too little concern about the
> impact of - and even knowledge of - US foreign policy, relative to its
> impact. Of course, it is also true that there is too little concern
> about the impact of domestic policy, and one could focus only on that
> and never run out of stuff to do. But for some group of people to have
> a disproportionate focus on US foreign policy I don't think is a bad
> thing, and in fact, at this stage in our history, I think it's a
> necessary thing. That certainly doesn't justify ignoring domestic
> impacts, and it seems obvious to me that collectively at least, this
> list doesn't comprise a group of people who do so, judging from the
> concerns and organizing efforts that are represented here on a regular
> basis.
>
>   
>>> So, the fact that such disparities persist in our society, and the
>>> fact that we don't move successfully to redress them, to me is
>>> evidence enough of racism; no other story is necessary.
>>>       
>> You ain't read enough stories, apparently.  There are many types of
>> disparities in our society, and many complex causes of such disparities.
>> Racism is an important one, but it is only one.
>>     
>
> Indeed. It is one, very important, instance, among others.
>
>   
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