[Peace-discuss] "To Help Palestine, Be Pro-Israel Too", from Ira Chernus

[Brussel]

There is no doubt that the U.S could stop what is going on now in  
Gaza. That it could change the Zionist expansionist mind-set is  
something else. There is also no doubt(?) that the U.S. could thwart  
the colonialist policies of Israel. This, however, does not absolve  
Israel from its criminality. There's plenty of blame on that score to  
go around.
--mkb


On Jan 11, 2009, at 4:31 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:

> The success of the racist policies of the leaders of the Israeli  
> state depends on US support.  Do you doubt that a phone call from  
> Washington would produce an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza?  In fact,  
> as the UN resolution shows, it's the only thing that will.  --CGE
>
>
> Brussel wrote:
>> There's abundant evidence* that Zionist leaders early on,  
>> including Hertzl and Ben Gurion, realized that they had to get rid  
>> of the Palestinians to construct a viable Jewish state. That there  
>> may have been opposition by some in the Kibbutz movement does not  
>> change the over all picture that Zionism is a root of the problem.  
>> That mindset is still strong today. --mkb
>> * /Overcoming Zionism/ by Joel Kovel (Jewish).  Mazin Qumsiyeh's / 
>> Sharing the Land of Canaan/. Also, see Chapter 4 of Noam  
>> Chomsky's /Fateful Triangle/. On Jan 11, 2009, at 1:57 PM, C. G.  
>> Estabrook wrote:
>>> The essence of the problem is *the U.S. use, in aid of its SW  
>>> Asian war, of a repressive state*, which justifies itself with  
>>> the lie that it's "realizing the Zionist dream."
>>>
>>> The Zionist dream -- a haven for Jews in the Levant -- did not  
>>> have to involve the establishment of a racist state.  In the  
>>> kibbutz movement and elsewhere, even after 1948, there were  
>>> Zionists who thought the goal should be a bi-national socialist  
>>> state.  That was destroyed by US patronage after 1967.
>>>
>>> --CGE
>>>
>>> Brussel wrote:
>>>> From the article by Chernus:
>>>> It's [the policy he's advocating] the only one that can give  
>>>> Israel peace and
>>>> security and release the energies of its people*/ to realize the  
>>>> Zionist
>>>> dream/*, to fulfill the highest aspirations of the Jewish  
>>>> people.  It calls
>>>> for the Jewish people to give up nothing that is truly their  
>>>> right and due.
>>>> I submit that "to realize the Zionist dream" is the essence of  
>>>> the problem…
>>>> This is a well intentioned article, but specious. It implies  
>>>> that the furious
>>>> protests taking place all over the world (and as reflected in UN  
>>>> resolutions)
>>>> condemning Israeli actions and policy are futile (for they are  
>>>> too strident
>>>> for the American government and media to accept); they do not raise
>>>> consciousness of what has been happening. That is at best doubtful.
>>>> --mkb
>>>> On Jan 11, 2009, at 1:44 AM, Stuart Levy wrote:
>>>>> Wanted to point out four notable articles that appeared this  
>>>>> week. Here's
>>>>> the first:
>>>>> To Help Palestine, Be Pro-Israel Too by Ira Chernus [Prof. of  
>>>>> Religious
>>>>> Studies, UC Boulder] http://www.commondreams.org/view/ 
>>>>> 2009/01/06-13
>>>>> Three viewpoints on the Gaza war fill the U.S. mass media: pro- 
>>>>> Israel, anti-Israel, and neutral or even-handed.  All three are  
>>>>> harmful to the
>>>>> suffering people of Gaza. The one view that can help them is  
>>>>> the one that
>>>>> barely gets a hearing. It's pro-Palestine, pro-peace, AND pro- 
>>>>> Israel.
>>>>> [...]
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