[Peace-discuss] Obama gets another one right

Mon Jan 26 14:40:47 CST 2009

Thanks, Wayne, NOW I get why there's no such thing as separation and divorce!

Seriously, tho'... the women I know who've had abortions weren't "pressured by society." They didn't want to continue a pregnancy because they didn't want to have a baby, which is what happens after 9 months of pregnancy if you or nature doesn't abort the foetus.

And please get off yr computer and take a look around: the alternatives to man-woman-children abound these days... and tho' single moms, singles dads, kids raised by non-parental family members, group homes, foster homes, recombined families, etc etc aren't The Cosbys or The Brady Bunch, it's where children are growing up these days. 

And yes, of course two happy parents ARE better than one. Does it really matter to you if a kid is being raised by two loving dads or by two loving moms? And if so, why? It could be argued that God (even yours!) must really love homosexuals... because he's made so many of them. 
 --Jenifer   

--- On Mon, 1/26/09, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:

From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Obama gets another one right
To: "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
Cc: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 1:22 PM

The attitude is certainly one of love and acceptance and mercy toward the women who have been pressured into an abortion by society.

Not so for the physicians who perform the execution, although many perhaps most of them do it ignorantly.

Lots of us have suffered various things.

The family of a man-woman-children has a lot going for it as compared to the alternatives.

*
Two are better than one, 
Because they have a good reward for their labor.
For if they fall, one will lift up his companion. 
But woe to him who is alone when he falls, 
For he has no one to help him up.
Again, if two lie down together, they will keep warm; 
But how can one be warm alone?
Though one may be overpowered by another, two can withstand him. 
And a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

John W. wrote: 
Just wanted to say that I for one appreciate your candor and insight, Marti..  It's always good (and necessary) to hear the perspectives of those who have actually LIVED the experience, and are not just speaking from some sort of theoretical framework.  And I agree...it's much more difficult to be judgmental once one has walked in another person's shoes, even if it's only vicariously and empathetically.

John

On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Marti Wilkinson <martiwilki at gmail.com> wrote:

This list serve is intended to be a peace forum

Unfortunately the subject matter of pregnancy and abortion has not always been treated in a peaceful fashion. Women who have faced unplanned pregnancies still deal with a great deal of stigma regardless of the choices they make. Of all the participants in this dialogue I'm the only person who has been able to share from direct experience in dealing with an unplanned pregnancy. As such I cannot judge a woman who makes the choice to have an abortion. It's physically, mentally, and emotionally challenging to go through an experience knowing that you will be both mother and father to the resulting child. I've had to deal with people from caseworkers to prospective employers question my morals and values system and that is a form of violence. Speaking from experience I remember the pain that has come from facing stigma and prejudice. As such I will argue that part of having peace in this world involves treating women and their decisions with dignity and
 respect. 

Someone commented that the earning power of women is starting to catch up with men. Well when you bring a child into that equation that throws the balance off even further. Single mothers often have to watch more than half their income go towards paying the basics like rent and child care. This does not take into account food, utilities, groceries, etc.  Single mothers (or fathers) are also unable to work the types of hours that could lead to advancement in their careers and professions. The amount of money that is deducted from paychecks for employer provided health premiums is more for a single parent than a single employee without kids. One company I worked for used to have a system of rewarding employees who maintained 'perfect' attendance through not using sick leave. That is impossible for working mothers and single parents. 

When Bush first ran for office he made reference to the middle class family making 50,000 a year. If you look at the reality behind that statement the truth is you have two people working putting together a combined income of 50K.  How many people in this community have financed their homes based on two incomes? Affordable housing, access to education, medical care, and quality child care are things that many people end up struggling for and that does not support peace. It's the children of single parents who often make convenient targets for military recruiters who are looking for warm bodies to send overseas. Like many parents I signed a form that prohibits direct solicitation. However, that doesn't change the fact that historically socioeconomic status plays a tremendous role in who gets sent to fight in a war. My grandmother once complained to my mother that she wished she could have afforded to put her kids through college, instead three of her
 sons ended up in Vietnam. Eventually one of my uncles died from medical issues which were made worse from his exposure to agent orange. 

What I find frustrating in this discussion is not so much the issue of appropriateness but the overall lack of a meaningful understanding of the subject matter. How many people here can truly speak to or effectively articulate the experiences of women who have had to face this? No one here can speak for my own experiences, just as I cannot speak for someone who lives in Gaza or Palestine. The best I can do is be an advocate for peace, justice, and human rights. The best that most of the participants here can do is be an advocate for the rights of women. Needless to say when I read statements that argue for the nuclear family or fathers rights I really have to wonder if people truly "get it" - and I find that discouraging. 

Marti

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