[Peace-discuss] Sous les pavés, la plage?

[E. Wayne Johnson]

I dont think they will be rioting on questions of principle so much as 
rioting and looting for something to eat.

Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
> My 2 cents re the efficacy of angry folks taking to the streets: 
> that seems to have worked great in France a couple of summer ago  
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4865034.stm
>  
> Of course, that was France, and that was then...
>  
> No, it won't happen here anytime soon in the fat, lazy, dumbed-down US 
> of A (where the gendarmes actually use live ammo).
>  -- Jenifer 
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 1/30/09, E. Wayne Johnson /<ewj at pigs.ag>/* wrote:
>
>     From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
>     Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Sous les pavés, la plage?
>     To: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
>     Cc: "Ron Szoke" <r-szoke at illinois.edu>, "Morton K. Brussel"
>     <brussel at illinois.edu>, "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>     Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 11:28 PM
>
>     Don't expect anyone out in the streets in the US of A until about
>     mid-March. 
>     It's just too dang cold for 24/7 rioting and much too slippery for
>     the gainful fleeing
>     from paramilitaries.
>
>     American roast bellum is always served /au "jus".  /
>
>     I don't expect that the phasers will always be set on "stun".  It
>     might not be all that pretty. 
>     I am imagining it hard to breathe out one's anger through a large
>     perforating chest wound.
>
>     The abstract sometimes answers my questions but often I have to
>     get the whole paper and read the
>     materials and methods. 
>
>     C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>     Difficult question.  The first premier of the People's Republic
>>     of China in the 1950s, Zhou Enlai, when asked his opinion of the
>>     1789 French Revolution, is supposed to have said, "It's too soon
>>     to tell."
>>
>>     I think the traditional Just War theory (jus ad bellum, jus in
>>     bello: see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war>) is correct,
>>     understood to mean that an oppressed or invaded people may take
>>     up arms under some conditions. (But, e.g., the US demand for
>>     unconditional surrender in WWII was clearly unjust.)
>>
>>     I doubt your question can be answered in the abstract.  As a
>>     practical matter, in dealing with angry people in the streets,
>>     unless overcome by hypocrisy I would hope to have belonged to the
>>     anti-war party in Boston in 1775, in Paris in 1789 (at least to
>>     the extent Tom Paine was), in Washington in 1860, etc.
>>
>>     The only congressional representative to vote against US entry
>>     into both World War I and World War II, Jeannette Rankin
>>     (1880-1973) of Montana, asked at the end of her life if she had
>>     any regrets, said, "I wish I'd been nastier." She meant in
>>     opposition to war, and that may imply that angry people should be
>>     in the streets. --CGE
>>
>>
>>     John W. wrote:
>>>
>>>     On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:53 PM, C. G. Estabrook
>>>     <galliher at uiuc.edu <mailto:galliher at uiuc.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     [A topic discussed on tonight's News from Neptune/TV Ed. (ch. 6
>>>     at 7pm and
>>>     soon online) but few other places in US media. I was in Latvia
>>>     several years
>>>     ago, and what's described here is hard to imagine. --CGE]
>>>
>>>
>>>     What's your opinion of the EFFICACY of angry people in the
>>>     streets, Carl?
>>>     Historically, does this type of protest, more often than not,
>>>     lead to
>>>     positive change for ordinary people?  Or is it just a venting of
>>>     (certainly
>>>     in some cases legitimate) emotion, which could just as easily
>>>     lead to civil
>>>     war and genocide?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Governments across Europe tremble as angry people take to the
>>>     streets Ian
>>>     Traynor, Europe editor The Guardian, Saturday 31 January 2009
>>>
>>>     France paralysed by a wave of strike action, the boulevards of
>>>     Paris resembling a debris-strewn battlefield. The Hungarian
>>>     currency sinks to its
>>>     lowest level ever against the euro, as the unemployment figure
>>>     rises. Greek
>>>     farmers block the road into Bulgaria in protest at low prices
>>>     for their
>>>     produce. New figures from the biggest bank in the Baltic show
>>>     that the three
>>>     post-Soviet states there face the biggest recessions in Europe.
>>>
>>>     It's a snapshot of a single day – yesterday – in a Europe
>>>     sinking into the
>>>     bleakest of times. But while the outlook may be dark in the big
>>>     wealthy
>>>     democracies of western Europe, it is in the young, poor,
>>>     vulnerable states of
>>>     central and eastern Europe that the trauma of crash, slump and
>>>     meltdown looks
>>>     graver.
>>>     ...
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Peace-discuss mailing list
>>     Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>     http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
>>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Peace-discuss mailing list
>     Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>     http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>               
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/archive/peace-discuss/attachments/20090131/2d4f9f35/attachment.htm