[Peace-discuss] More about The Lobby

[John W.]

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:41 AM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>wrote:

Israel has its own vicious agenda, as Chomsky is among the first to point
> out.
> But it would not be able to enact it without the US.
>
> Other people write well on this matter, but Chomsky has been doing it
> particularly well, for a long time.  It's hard to equal "Fateful Triangle:
> The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians" (1983), updated ten years
> ago, and that's only one among many.
>
> Chomsky points out that the debates over the Lobby "are paralyzing. They
> have no implications for activism, except one. If the claims are correct,
> then I’ve been wasting my time for years in talking, writing, organizing,
> activism. I should instead put on a tie and jacket and go to the corporate
> headquarters of Intel, Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, and a host of other major
> corporations investing in Israel, and should explain to them, politely, that
> they are harming their interests by doing so, and should use their political
> and economic power to put the lobby out of business, as they can do in five
> minutes. No one adopts that tactic. But why?"



Why indeed?




> Brussel Morton K. wrote:


>  You dodge the point that Ray McGovern, and others, are making in a kind of
>> obsession to  attack the U.S.—and now seemingly Obama policies— (which in
>> other contexts deserves your condemnation), overlook the influence of the
>> Lobby who the more astute (like McGovern) recognize as pernicious and
>> effective, and excuse Israeli policies by suggesting that they are simply
>> puppets of the U.S.  It's bait and switch, once more.
>>
>> Your concluding paragraph leaves the impression that Israel does not have
>> its
>> own vicious agenda relative to the Palestinians, Iraq, Iran, Syria,
>> Hezbollah, or Hamas, which seems to me arrant nonsense.
>>
>> Stop worshipping Chomsky; even he has his blinders.. --mkb
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2009, at 9:52 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>
>>  If it weren't such an indication of pathological denial and refusal to
>>> note
>>> the simple facts, it would be funny -- the insistence of American
>>> liberals
>>>  that the US crimes in SW Asia are the fault of the Bad Jews and their
>>> Lobby who have somehow manipulated and misled the Good Obama.
>>>
>>> What will it take for them to recognize that the murderous policies that
>>> the US follows from the Mediterranean to the Indus are American (not
>>> Israeli) policies, pursued in the interest of American elites?  Obama had
>>> been feverishly auditioning to work for them for years: see "The Audacity
>>> of Hope" (an honestly self-referential title).  He's the jumped-up
>>> button-man of the American ascendancy, a Mob lawyer whose client is the
>>> greatest Mob of all -- the American ruling class.
>>>
>>> Israel sold its soul to the American Devil years ago -- ca. 1967 -- for
>>> the
>>> mess of pottage (about $4B/yr) that the US provides. The result has been
>>> the corruption of Israeli government and society -- perhaps predictable,
>>> because of the roots of that society in what has been accurately termed a
>>> "settler-colonialist" ruling class.
>>>
>>> --CGE
>>
>>
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