FW: [Peace-discuss] Fw: CCHCC Annual Dinner & Adbook -- AWARE

LAURIE SOLOMON LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET
Fri Mar 27 13:47:59 CDT 2009 



It may not be strictly a religious question; but when one argues
philosophical and/or ethical questions as if they were a matter of
religious-like dogma, then one transforms these philosophical and/or ethical
questions into a form of religious question.  What makes you so sure that
resurrection is a religious question and not a philosophical or scientific
question?  

The argument you are offering here can be applied to anything and
everything.  I know of nothing that is intrinsically and exclusively one
type or another type of question in substantive content or form. I think
that what distinguishes things is the way in which one argues in which
dogmatic arguments that rely on articles of faith in total or in part
whatever their content can be said to be religious in flavor - even if the
subject is secular.  This is why I often regard some of the scientific
arguments such as those concerning the objectivity and truth of the
scientific method as an exercise in secular religious argumentation.

-----Original Message-----
From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G.
Estabrook
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:40 AM
To: Morton K. Brussel
Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; LAURIE SOLOMON
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: CCHCC Annual Dinner & Adbook -- AWARE

Abortion isn't a religious question (like resurrection) but a philosophical
question (like human equality).  It doesn't become a religious question just
because some religious groups adopt a position on the matter.

You obviously don't think all ethical questions are religious, and there are
good philosophical arguments for the view that abortion is wrong. (See,
e.g.,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/abortion/philosophical/future.shtml>.) --CGE


Morton K. Brussel wrote:
> This discussion will go nowhere.  We've been through this before. At issue
is
> a theological rigidity, rather like that espoused among the Taleban, that
> will not change.  This Taleban has its headquarters in Rome. Witness the
> Pope's latest pronouncements about contraception. It all seems to be
> connected with the saving of souls.  --mkb
> 
> 
> On Mar 26, 2009, at 10:43 PM, LAURIE SOLOMON wrote:
> 
>> It should not be necessary to point out to someone as astute as Carl that

>> (a) no action is an action, (b) any action will impact on some positively

>> and on others negatively, and (c) supporting a woman's right to choice is

>> vastly different than supporting either the lack of any choice or the 
>> enforcement of a choice that the participants were not participants in. 
>> Thus, not to support CCHCC because of its stance in favor of Pro-Choice
is 
>> in effect serving to give defacto support to those who oppose Pro-Choice 
>> which is in effect to defacto support Pro-Life stances.  It is not a 
>> neutral action.
>> 
>> Furthermore, supporting the giving the woman the choice or a say in the 
>> choice is not dictating the sort of choice that the woman has to make nor
>> is it banning the woman from the opportunity to make any choice at all as

>> would be the case of a Pro-life stance.  Thus, I take it that AWARE
opposes
>>  giving people choices - especially the choose certain options that some 
>> oppose on religious grounds and want to impose on everyone.  The only
>> legitimate argument that could be made against the Pro-choice position is
>> that the unborn are not given the opportunity to participate in decisions
>> that will effect them.  This is true enough; but it is also true with
>> respect to so many other things and choices in life that the unborn
>> (regardless of whether or not one wants to identify them as living human
>> beings or not) are not included in the decisions-making processes (even
>> many of us who have been born or even born again) are left out of the
major
>> decision-making processes that decide things that will have significant
>> future impact on us.  Who legitimately and officially represents the
unborn
>> and their interests (present and future) with respect to environmental
>> policies, decisions, and actions that will be of consequence to the
unborn
>> after they have been born? I think that this argument is in practical
terms
>> a red herring.
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net

>> [mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of C. G. 
>> Estabrook Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:11 PM To: Randall Cotton Cc:
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: CCHCC
>> Annual Dinner & Adbook -- AWARE
>> 
>> The CCHCC website notes its "long track record of organizing for women's 
>> reproductive rights" -- 
>> http://www.healthcareconsumers.org/index.php?action=Display%20Page&id=293
>> 
>> 
>> Randall Cotton wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook"
>> <galliher at illinois.edu>
>>> To: "Randall Cotton" <recotton at earthlink.net> Cc: 
>>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:24
>>> AM
>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: CCHCC Annual Dinner & Adbook -- AWARE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> : CCHCC seems to do good work in pressing for medical care -- sadly made

>>> necessary : by the shameful record of Democrats: the administration
>> doesn't
>>> even back single : payer -- it supports insurance companies instead,
just
>>> 
>> as
>>> previous : administrations have done. : : If you followed the thread on 
>>> abortion on peace-discuss some time ago, you know : that there are some
>>> of
>> us
>>> who think (as Feminists for Life put it) that abortion : is violence
>> against
>>> women -- "women deserve better than abortion."  FFL : 
>>> <www.feministsforlife.org> says that women should "refuse to choose"; 
>>> abortion : is proposed as a solution to social and economic problems. :
:
>>> 
>> I'm
>>> against things that impoverish and end human life -- war and capitalism
>>> --
>> :
>>> and abortion does that. I would oppose supporting organizations that
>> support
>>> it.
>>> 
>>> How does CCHCC support abortion?
>>> 
>>> : OTOH one might argue that supporting CCHCC is a bit far from AWARE's 
>>> purpose. : The vigorous anti-war movement that existed at the beginning
>>> of the decade has : been erased by the workings of US politics.  It
would
>>> 
>> seem
>>> important for us to : recognize how that was done. It's been a 
>>> commonplace since Tom Frank's "What's : the Matter with Kansas?" that
>>> distraction and diversion has been a large part of : it.  The abortion
>>> issue has added to
>> the
>>> distraction. --CGE
>>> 
>>> CCHCC is also pressing hard for the full remediation of the toxic site
of
>>> 
>> the
>>> old coal gasification plant that has contaminated the area around 5th
and
>>>  Hill St., a poor, predominantly black area of town. I would argue that
>>> the long-standing toxic contamination is, in good part, a victimization 
>>> based
>> on
>>> race. And we are the Anti-War *Anti-Racism* Effort.
>>> 
>>> On the other hand, there are always tradeoffs in where we expend our
>> efforts
>>> and funds. Do we spend funds to oppose and increase awareness about how
>> our
>>> tax dollars are going toward killing women and children in Iraq,
>> Afghanistan,
>>> Pakistan and Palestine or direct them to help right a racist wrong to
>> improve
>>> the health (and possibly the lifespan) of victimized people in our local

>>> community.
>>> 
>>> Not an easy question to weigh. R
>>> 
>>> : Randall Cotton wrote: : > AWAREista's, please take note and think this
>> over
>>> - I plan to bring this up : > for consideration at Sunday's meeting, 
>>> since we've done it in the (admittedly : > distant) past. R : > : >
-----
>>> 
>> Original
>>> Message ----- From: "Claudia Lennhoff" <claudia at shout.net> To: : > 
>>> <recotton at earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:08 AM
Subject:
>>> 
>> : >
>>> CCHCC Annual Dinner & Adbook -- AWARE : > : > : > : Hi Randall, : : This
>> is
>>> Claudia Lennhoff from Champaign County Health Care : > Consumers. : I 
>>> hope you're doing well. : : I wanted to check in with you : > about the 
>>> possibility of AWARE taking : an ad in this year's CCHCC Dinner : > 
>>> Adbook Program. AWARE has taken ads : in the past, but this year, we
were
>>> : >
>> trying
>>> to contact Jan Kruse and : we couldn't get hold of her, and then : >
>> someone
>>> told me that she is no : longer the Treasurer for AWARE, so that's :
>>>> why
>>> I'm reaching out to you. : : If I need to be in touch with someone else,
>>> :
>>> 
>>> please feel free to : direct me that way. Otherwise, if you can let me
>> know :
>>>> if y'all would : be willing to take an ad, that would be great. : :
>> Thanks
>>> : > and take care. : Claudia : ***************** : : : Dear Friend, : :
I
>>>  wanted : > to let you know that CCHCC's Annual Awards Dinner is :
>> scheduled
>>> for Friday, : > April 17, 2009 at the Hawthorn Suites in : Champaign. I
>> hope
>>> you will : > consider purchasing/donating a table, and : taking out an
ad
>>> 
>> in
>>> our Adbook : > Program for the Dinner.  Below is : information on the
>> Dinner
>>> and the Adbook. : >  : : DINNER: : - Dinner tickets are $40 each. : - A
>> table
>>> of 8 is $280. : - A : > table of 10 is $340. : : If you would like to 
>>> purchase or contribute a table, : > you can reply to : me and let me 
>>> know. Organizations that contribute tables : > are thanked : in the
>>> Adbook
>> Program,
>>> as well as in the introduction to the : > dinner, : and all tables that
>> are
>>> contributed are honorary tables and have a : > : sign on them listing
the
>>>  donor (for example, The Mary Louise White : Table, : > by CONTRIBUTOR).
>>> :
>> :
>>> ADBOOK: : Also, as part of the Annual Dinner : > celebration, we will be

>>> producing : CCHCC's Program Guide, or Adbook. Since : > our first Awards

>>> Dinner in : 1977, the Adbook has been an excellent : > opportunity for
>> local
>>> : businesses and organizations to connect directly to : > CCHCC
>> supporters. :
>>> : We distribute the Adbook at the Awards Dinner and at : > other
>> membership :
>>> events throughout the year.  We also recognize : > participating : 
>>> businesses, organizations and individuals in our newsletter : > that
goes
>>> 
>> :
>>> out to over 7,000 members, and on our website. : : Ad prices are : > as 
>>> follows: : -- Gold page: (4.5w x 7.25h):         $400 : -- Full page: :
>
>>>  (4.5w x 7.25h):         $175 : -- Half page: (4.5w x 3.5h): $110 : -- :
>>> > Quarter page: (2.25w x 3.5h):       $65 : : Creating the Ad: : You are
>> free :
>>>> to create the ad yourself and send it to us. It should : be at least 
>>>> 300
>>> dpi : > resolution and saved as a .tiff file. You can : email it to me.
:
>>> 
>> :
>>> If you do : > not want to make the ad yourself, we are more than willing
>>> :
>> to
>>> create one : > for you. All you have to do is send me any text or : 
>>> images you'd like in the : > ad and we'll send you a proof for your : 
>>> approval. :
>> :
>>> Paying for the Ad: : : > You can mail a check to our office made out to 
>>> "CCHCC" (see address below). : : > Or you can pay online via PayPal
here:
>>> 
>> : :
>>>> http://www.healthcareconsumers.org/index.php?action=Display%20Store : :
>>>> 
>>> Then : > select the size ad that you would like. Layout and submission :

>>> instructions : > are detailed on the webpage where you select the size
ad
>>> 
>> :
>>> you want. : : : > Please let me know if you would like to reserve an ad.
>>> :
>> :
>>> If you have any : > questions or need more information, please feel free
>>> :
>> to
>>> contact me. : : : > Thank you for your support! : : Sincerely, : : 
>>> Claudia
>> :
>>> : -- : : > ****************************************** : Claudia
Lennhoff,
>>>  Executive : > Director : Champaign County Health Care Consumers : 44 E.
>> Main
>>> Street, Suite : > 208 : Champaign, IL 61820 : : Phone: 217/352-6533,
ext.
>>> 
>> 11
>>> : Fax: : > 217/352-9745 : E-Mail: claudia at shout.net : : Web: 
>>> www.healthcareconsumers.org : >  :
>> ******************************************
>>> : _______________________________________________ : Peace-discuss
mailing
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