[Peace-discuss] Tony's comments

[C. G. Estabrook]

Rory Stewart is undoubtedly a Brit, and I'd suggest reading what he's written
and what's been written about him to see whether I'm justified in calling him
"peculiar."  (I'll append the URLs.)

It's more disturbing that David Gill prefers Stewart's views to those of "anyone
... on this listserv" because he (Stewart) walked across Afghanistan and wrote a
book about it.  Perhaps on the strength of that book, Stewart was recently
appointed head of the Carr Center, a think tank in the Kennedy School at Harvard
and a well-known locus for the support of liberal interventionism; its
best-known director wrote in favor of torture during the Iraq war.

What's being said is more important than who's saying it, and Stewart (and Gill)
say that they are in favor of the continuation of the killing by "a relatively
small number [namely, 10,000 to 20,000] of Special Operations Forces."  Special
operations are specifically assassination and the establishment of death squads,
and the director of these operations, Stanley McChrystal, was appointed by Obama
to be his overall commander in Afghanistan.

That's certainly a substantial involvement in Afghan "internal decisions."  I
(and apparently an increasing number of Americans) prefer a withdrawal of
American troops -- which (in contrast to Congressional candidate Gill) seems to
be supported by Representatives Ron Paul (R-TX), Jim McGovern (D-MA), Jerry
Costello (D-IL 12), and Tim Johnson (D-IL 15).  --CGE


By and about Rory Stewart:
<http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n13/stew01_.html>;
<http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c7414148-7d60-11de-b8ee-00144feabdc0.html>; and
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/17/rory-stewart-afghanistan-traditional-skills>.



David Gill wrote:
> Estabrook needlessly editorializes when describing Stewart as a "peculiar 
> Brit".  Once more, I repeat, when Estabrook or anyone else on this listserv 
> has spent time interacting at length with thousands of people who live within
>  the villages of Afghanistan, perhaps then they might have a thorough 
> understanding of how best to minimize hardship in the lives of the Afghani 
> people.
> 
> As for the forgiving of Mr. Johnson: based on his history, I have little 
> doubt, that when the next conflict is being debated, that if it is strongly 
> supported by the American public, that Mr. Johnson will be fully behind it.
> 
> Regarding Iraq:  I was publicly against our involvement there from the time I
>  began my initial campaign in December, 2002, and I have always opposed our 
> involvement there.t's certainly
> 
> Regarding Afghanistan, I oppose the concept of "nation-building" there 
> through military action, and I view issues related to the Taliban as items 
> that should be dealt with by the Afghani people themselves-- their opinions 
> of the Taliban vary widely, and I don't think it is the business of America 
> to be involved with their internal decisions.
> 
> I support drawing down American forces, leaving in place a relatively small 
> number of Special Operations Forces, to prevent the re-establishment of 
> Al-Qaida training camps.  I would encourage all to watch the interview with 
> Rory Stewart on "Bill Moyers Journal" : 
> http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09252009/profile.html
> 
> David Gill
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ---- From: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu> To:
>  unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> Cc: Peace-discuss List 
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; David Gill <docgill37 at yahoo.com> Sent: 
> Sat, October 17, 2009 4:36:00 PM Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
> 
> 
> 
> No, he doesn't.
> 
> He supports some version of Obama's war -- by "10,000 to 20,000 special 
> operations forces in [Afghanistan] to prevent any further expansion of 
> al-Qaida."
> 
> He says he "respects the opinion on the subject [of] Mr. [Rory] Stewart." 
> Stewart, a peculiar Brit, walked across Afghanistan and wrote a book about 
> it: he has no principled objection to the occupation of Afghanistan, but he 
> doesn't think the US (and the UK) are doing it very well.
> 
> Stewart now heads that propaganda mill, the Carr Center at Harvard, the 
> ornament of which is the awful Samantha Power, apologist for Clinton's war on
>  Serbia. (The former director was the even worse Michael Ignatieff.) For more
>  on Stewart's views, see
> 
> <http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/c7414148-7d60-11de-b8ee-00144feabdc0.html>; and 
> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/17/rory-stewart-afghanistan-traditional-skills>.
> 
> 
> 
> Gill is (perhaps unintentionally) misleading when he says that he is not "as 
> forgiving toward Mr. Johnson as Mr. Estabrook seems to be."  He knows 
> perfectly well that I condemned Johnson's views on Iraq when I ran against 
> him and afterwards.  I haven't changed my views, but Johnson seems to have 
> changed his, in that he now calls for withdrawal from Afghanistan -- which 
> Gill opposes.
> 
> Like many people, Democrats and others, understandably embarrassed about 
> their support for murder in Afghanistan now, Gill seems to prefer to talk 
> about the actions of the previous administration.  --CGE
> 
> 
> unionyes wrote:
>> So what is your position on Afganistan ?
>> 
>> Maybe I was misinformed !
>> 
>> Do you support a TOTAL U.S. military ( including the U.S. government paid 
>> mercenaries, Blackwater et al. ) withdrawl from BOTH Afganistan and Iraq ?
>> 
>> David J.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gill" <docgill37 at yahoo.com> To: 
>> "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:53 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
>> 
>> 
>> David J.: Not at all clear how you've dragged me into being a supporter of 
>> the occupation of Iraq-- I've publicly viewed this as a farce since before 
>> its inception. And the consequences of that occupation are far too 
>> calamitous for me to be as forgiving toward Mr. Johnson as Mr. Estabrook 
>> seems to be.
>> 
>> To repeat: there is no "party line" into which I buy. When any of you walk 
>> from one end of Afghanistan to the other, by yourself, and spend the time 
>> first-hand with an extremely wide variety of Afghani people, in 500 
>> villages, I'll likely accord the same respect to your opinion on the 
>> subject as I currently do Mr. Stewart's.
>> 
>> David Gill
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ---- From: unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> To: 
>> Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Sent: Fri, October 
>> 16, 2009 6:14:02 PM Subject: Fw: [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net> To: 
>> <illyes at illinois.edu> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: Re: 
>> [Peace-discuss] Tony's comments
>> 
>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> 
>>> Let's be objective about this !
>>> 
>>> WE ( The U.S. Government ) have NO right to have invaded Afganistan and 
>>> WE certainly do NOT have ANY right to continue to occupy THEIR country !
>>> 
>>> Gill is excellent on the Health Care issue, BUT, he is buying into the " 
>>> party line " about the continued corporate imperialistic occupation of 
>>> BOTH Afganistan and Iraq !
>>> 
>>> The wars of terror ( NOT the war on terror ) is continueing and being 
>>> EXPANDED under Obama, and you know Bob as well as I do, that the money, 
>>> murder, and mayhem, that we perpetuate abroad, is that much less that is 
>>> available to spend here at " home " ( in the U.S. ) for Health Care, 
>>> Green Jobs, etc..
> 
> 
> 
>