[Peace-discuss] AWARE

[Ricky Baldwin]

As the OED suggests (i.e. "punningly") a word's etymology (or "supposed etymology") is not the same as its definition.  Meanings also change over time.  Otherwise phrases like "rabbits and other deer" would still make sense down at the gas station.

The rest of Wayne's comment might make sense somewhere, but I've never been there.

Ricky

"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn

--- On Thu, 9/3/09, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:


From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] AWARE
To: 
Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 10:04 AM


Certainly Carl is correct in noting that a pontifex is one who builds a bridge between man and God.

pontifex,  from pont-, stem of pons "bridge" + -fex, -ficis, root of facere "make." 

The connotation of pontifications being dogmatic follows from that position.  The messages flowing
over the genuine bridge toward man are truth, and perfect.  Man, on the other hand, has many inventions.


On 9/3/2009 3:06 AM, John W. wrote: 


Incidentally, in my own dictionary perusings and musings - to say nothing of my life experience - I'm not seeing anything about a person who pontificates as being a "bridge builder":

pon·tif·i·cate




  (pŏn-tĭf'ĭ-kĭt, -kāt')    
n.  The office or term of office of a pontiff.
intr.v.   (-kāt') pon·tif·i·cat·ed, pon·tif·i·cat·ing, pon·tif·i·cates


To express opinions or judgments in a dogmatic way.
To administer the office of a pontiff.
[Latin pontificātus, from pontifex, pontific-, pontifex; see pontifex. V., from Medieval Latin pontificāre, pontificāt-, to act as an ecclesiastic, from Latin pontifex.]
pon·tif'i·ca'tion n., pon·tif'i·ca'tor n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. 


 
But (from a Louse to a Mouse) Rabbie Burns came closer to my condition when he wrote,

       Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie,
       O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
       Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
       Wi' bickering brattle!

--WSCTB


John W. wrote:


O wad some gift the Giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

--Robert Burns, I believe



On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:34 PM, C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>> wrote:

   "...intervention by leadership"?  AWARE has leadership?  When &
   where has it
   "intervened"?

   Do I understand correctly that you're objecting to debate on a
   discussion
   list...?  Or saying just that "pontificators" have to shut up?

   (A pontificator -- I have to hurry to point it out before Wayne does
   -- is
   literally a bridge-builder, and that surely is something we need to do.)

   Yet you conclude, "May the conversation continue..."  OK.  --CGE





   jgeo61 at comcast.net <mailto:jgeo61 at comcast.net> wrote:

 
       I would be happy to.  As I understand, the AWARE group was
       created to tackle the issues of Peace and Justice and be an
       outlet for folks living in the area
       to feel they had a voice and to take action.  The goals of the
       AWARE group
       are in theory decided upon by the membership via, ie: surveys,
       board recommendations etc.  When I see only 3 - 4 people on the
       peace-discuss list serve pontificating for weeks and months at a
       time and when the conversations become so heated that there
       needs to be an intervention by leadership, I
       understand clearly that the "discussion" has ceased to exist and
       in fact has
       slipped to a typical "I'm right, your dead wrong" situation. We
       as longtime
       peace activists, know first hand how distructive this is to the
       work that
       needs to be done.  It is an unecessary distraction.

       I am tired of the situation where we are contuously losing
       members due to their frustration and unmet needs.

       In my mind, to have a meaningful discussion, not a debate, to
       explore the "root causes" of war requires intensive listening on
       both sides. Which is clearly, quite clearly, not in practice here.

       May the conversation continue.

       Joy George


       ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook"
       <galliher at illinois.edu <mailto:galliher at illinois.edu>>
        To: jgeo61 at comcast.net <mailto:jgeo61 at comcast.net> Cc: 

       peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
       <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Sent: Wednesday, 

        September 2, 2009 9:23:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
       Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] AWARE

       Would you be willing to be a bit more specific?

       What are "the goals and needs of the entire group" that are not
       reflected on
        peace-discuss?  And what is "the entire group"? AWARE members?
        All those in
        favor of peace?

       If the list doesn't reflect such views, the solution would seem
       to be inclusion, not exclusion, viz. "those who want to have the
       ongoing debate discussions find their own regular venue..."

       The "work to be done" seems to me importantly to include
       understanding what we're doing and why.  --CGE



       jgeo61 at comcast.net <mailto:jgeo61 at comcast.net> wrote:

 
           This is quite an accusation.  You make it sound as if we are
           pouting, taking our toys home, since we didn't get our way
           on the playground.  My concern is that this discussion group
           does not reflect the goals or needs of the entire group and
           in fact the current behavior has driven away
           existing/potential members.

           If we want to "make a difference" in the peace effort, we
           must stick together to be a unified force, otherwise we
           appear only to be squabbling chickens.  I strongly believe
           that if those who want to have the ongoing debate
           discussions find their own regular venue and talk until the
           cows come home. There is work to be done and there is no
           time like the present to get back to it.

           Joy


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