[Peace-discuss] Watch it, you extreme civil libertarians...

Fri Apr 2 21:38:50 CDT 2010

Ricky, are you surprised that an AP article "doesn't mention enough detail 
(neither did anything I've read so far on that incident) to figure out whether 
the raid was reasonable or not"?  Gee, think how bad off we'll be if newspapers 
really do die...

I wish that what the FBI (& DHS) was doing was a joke - and there's no denying 
that there are farcical aspects to it - but it's no joke to the people whom 
they're entrapping, or to the American public whom they're misleading.

We've seen them constructing and instigating "terrorist" plots across the 
country in this and the last administration. USG policy in both administrations 
depends on convincing the public that it's protecting them from terrorists, so 
there must be terrorists - even if the FBI has to invent them, as they did with 
(Mideast) foreigners in the US and now with home-grown terrorists.

The pattern is the same. As Scott Horton writes, "Find a person or a small group 
of people who are gullible and bordering on criminal, then trick them into 
saying, or sometimes even doing, something stupid and/or evil. See for example 
the Miami 7, the Detroit 5, the Lodi 1, the NY 2, the NY 4...

In the case of the Michigan guys, the Feebies had to have someone "undercover" 
with them for eight months to get the required threats. (And the government 
didn't want you to know about that: it slipped out.)

Obviously the FBI, as always, wants to do things like this to convince everyone 
that it's doing its job.  And even more now the administration wants to say that 
people who oppose it are all crazies, "tea-partiers," and other lesser breeds 
without the law.

Americans who have real grievances - like no jobs - and realize that Obama is 
not working for them, but rather is  transferring money form the poor to the 
rich and killing people half a world away while justifying it all with the 
threat of terrorism - and being denigrated as crazies and conspirators.  And 
Obama knows quite well what he's doing. (Cf. AP: "President Barack Obama says he 
believes the Tea Party is built around a 'core group' of people who question 
whether he is a U.S. citizen and believe he is a socialist.")

One result is that there is no effective opposition to the administration's 
scrapping of the Bill of Rights.  The opposition has been delegitimized. (See 
e.g., Glen Greenwald's' recent columns on the subject 
<http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html>.) Which of course 
is what the government had in mind.

So we hear a lot about the Michigan militia this week, but not so much about the 
federal court decision that rejected the Bush/Obama position on warrantless 
wiretaps and the state secrecy they invoked to protect them.

Ricky Baldwin wrote:
> Is this a joke?  For starters it doesn't sound like your usual way of 
> expressing yourself, Carl, so I wonder if it you.  Besides, the article 
> never mentions either "the Obama Administration" or "trials" --  does it?
> 
> The article seems to primarily concern a "warning" from the FBI that 
> there "could" be threats against governors et al, which sort of alert 
> doesn't exactly sound like an abrogation of the US constitutional 
> system.  Some may object to the actions mentioned at the very end, but 
> this article doesn't mention enough detail (neither did anything I've 
> read so far on that incident) to figure out whether the raid was 
> reasonable or not - and there's no comment that suggests here what the 
> problem would be.
> 
> Am I missing something?
> 
> Ricky
> 
> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
> 
> --- On *Fri, 4/2/10, C. G. Estabrook /<galliher at illinois.edu>/* wrote:
> 
> 
>     From: C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
>     Subject: [Peace-discuss] Watch it, you extreme civil libertarians...
>     To: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>     Date: Friday, April 2, 2010, 8:07 PM
> 
>     [Remember that you can have no more civil liberty than the
>     government allows. Don't go thinking that the Bill of Rights -
>     designed to restrain the federal government - applies anymore.  Look
>     what the Obama administration is doing about trials...  --CGE]
> 
>     "Last weekend, the FBI conducted raids on suspected members of a
>     Christian militia in the Midwest ... In the past year, federal
>     agents have seen an increase in 'chatter' from an array of domestic
>     extremist groups, which can include radical self-styled militias,
>     white separatists or extreme civil libertarians and sovereign citizens."
> 
>         FBI warns letters to governors could stir violence
>         By EILEEN SULLIVAN and DEVLIN BARRETT
>         The Associated Press
>         Friday, April 2, 2010; 8:09 PM
> 
>     WASHINGTON -- The FBI is warning police across the country that an
>     anti-government group's call to remove governors from office could
>     provoke violence. The group called the Guardians of the free
>     Republics wants to "restore America" by peacefully dismantling parts
>     of the government, according to its Web site. It sent letters to
>     governors demanding they leave office or be removed.
> 
>     Investigators do not see threats of violence in the group's message,
>     but fear the broad call for removal of top state officials could
>     lead others to act out violently. At least two states beefed up
>     security in response.
> 
>     Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty said he received one of the letters but
>     wasn't overly alarmed.
> 
>     "We get all kinds of, shall we say, 'interesting' mail, so it's not
>     out of the norm," Pawlenty said Friday. "It got more attention
>     because it went to so many governors."
> 
>     As of Wednesday, more than 30 governors had received letters saying
>     if they don't leave office within three days they will be removed,
>     according to an internal intelligence note by the FBI and the
>     Department of Homeland Security. The note was obtained by The
>     Associated Press.
> 
>     The FBI expects all 50 governors will eventually receive such letters.
> 
>     Governors whose offices reported getting the letters included
>     Jennifer Granholm of Michigan, Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Chet
>     Culver of Iowa, Dave Heineman of Nebraska, Jim Gibbons of Nevada,
>     Brad Henry of Oklahoma, Mike Rounds of South Dakota, Bob McDonnell
>     of Virginia, and Gary Herbert of Utah, where officials stepped up
>     security in response to the letter.
> 
>     In Nevada, screening machines for visitors and packages were added
>     to the main entrance to the state Capitol as a precaution.
> 
>     "We're not really overly concerned, but at the same time we don't
>     want to sit back and do nothing and regret it," Deputy Chief of
>     Staff Lynn Hettrick said.
> 
>     Granholm spokeswoman Liz Boyd said federal authorities had alerted
>     the governor that such a letter might be coming, and it arrived
>     Monday. Boyd, who described the letter as "non-threatening," said it
>     was opened by a staffer and immediately turned over to the Michigan
>     State Police.
> 
>     Jindal's office confirmed that the governor had received one of the
>     letters and directed questions to the Louisiana State Police.
> 
>     "They called us as they do for any letter that's out of the norm,"
>     said Lt. Doug Cain, a state police spokesman. He declined to provide
>     specifics about the letter, but said, "not knowing the group and the
>     information contained in the letter warranted state police to review
>     it."
> 
>     The FBI warning comes at a time of heightened attention to far-right
>     extremist groups after the arrest of nine Christian militia members
>     last weekend accused of plotting violence.
> 
>     In explaining the letters sent to the governors, the intelligence
>     note says officials have no specific knowledge of plans to use
>     violence, but they caution police to be aware in case other
>     individuals interpret the letters "as a justification for violence
>     or other criminal actions."
> 
>     The FBI associated the letter with "sovereign citizens," most of
>     whom believe they are free from all duties of a U.S. citizen, like
>     paying taxes or needing a government license to drive. A small
>     number of these people are armed and resort to violence, according
>     to the intelligence report.
> 
>     Last weekend, the FBI conducted raids on suspected members of a
>     Christian militia in the Midwest that was allegedly planning to kill
>     police officers. In the past year, federal agents have seen an
>     increase in "chatter" from an array of domestic extremist groups,
>     which can include radical self-styled militias, white separatists or
>     extreme civil libertarians and sovereign citizens.
> 
>     ----
> 
>     Associated Press writers Melinda Deslatte in Baton Rouge, La., Brian
>     Bakst in St. Paul, Minn., and David Aguilar in Detroit contributed
>     to this report.
> 
>     http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/02/AR2010040200844_pf.html

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