[Peace-discuss] The real terrorist plot

[unionyes]

" It's far better to explain the
real, known history - atrocious enough - than assume that there must be an 
as
yet unknown plot (which I admit is not impossible). "

I agree Carl !

But as events are unfolding, and the dust has not yet settled for historical 
analysis, one should be aware of what the U.S. government has done in the 
past, including it's various actions of false flag operations ( Gulf of 
Tonkin and possibly 9 /11 ) and assisinations, etc. and how they have used 
these in their overall propoganda campaign to whip-up public support for 
their foreign policy and domestic agendas.

David J.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The real terrorist plot


> Unfortunately our rulers don't need false-flag operations to influence 
> public opinion - an American specialty.
>
> Moreover they'd take such a great chance of exposure that they'd want to 
> do it only in extreme (or perhaps peripheral) circumstances.
>
> Remember that the ostensible reason for the invasion of Iraq wasn't 9/11 - 
> it was WMD.  It's true that the US wasn't above cooking the evidence - 
> e.g., the Niger forgeries and the Bush's (unexecuted) plan, proposed to 
> Blair, "of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, 
> painted in UN colours: if Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach" of 
> UN resolutions.
>
> And a false-flag operation is different from maneuvering the opponent, 
> whom one wants to attack, into firing the first shot - as Lincoln and 
> Roosevelt apparently did.
>
> But the "main point" is that, if the real story be told and the actual 
> circumstances set out in regard to most of the events you list, the USG 
> policy stands condemned.  Most Americans have however been led to believe 
> that that policy is benevolent or at worst unknowing.  It's far better to 
> explain the real, known history - atrocious enough - than assume that 
> there must be an as yet unknown plot (which I admit is not impossible).
>
> It's worthwhile to read the known history of USG plots as contained in Tim 
> Weiner's history of the CIA, Legacy of Ashes, which discusses "1953 coup 
> in Iran 1954 coup in Guatemala 1961 Bay of Pigs, etc."  Weiner is no 
> leftist, but he sets out the nefarious (if often inept) actions of the USG 
> in those matters.
>
> In convincing our fellow citizens that Obama is a criminal, we should 
> concentrate on "US national policy, abetted by junior partners in the UK, 
> France and Germany: widening attacks on Afghanistan, an unfolding record 
> of torturing captives to death since 2001, full support for Israel’s 
> onslaughts on Palestinians and calculated mass murder."
>
> Solidarity, CGE
>
>
> unionyes wrote:
>> Carl,
>>
>> I think you and Cockburn are missing the main point !
>>
>> That is, the ruling class has used and continues to use disinformation 
>> and
>> false flag operations to influence public opinion !
>>
>> Don't fall into the trap of propoganda that states that ANY reference to 
>> corporate and/or government collusion or CONSPRICACY is a " conspiracy 
>> theory
>> " !
>>
>> Lets review ;
>>
>> 1953 coup in Iran 1954 coup in Guatemala 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion of 
>> Cuba 1963 coup in Iraq and questionable JFK assasination. 1964 coup in 
>> Brazil and
>> Indonesia 1965 U.S. intervension in Dominican Republic and asasination of
>> Diem in Vietnam. 1966 coup in Zaire ( Congo ) 1967 assination of Malcolm 
>> X 1968 assisnation of Bobby Kennedy and assisnation of Dr. King. 1970
>> mysterious plane crash of Walter Reuther ( UAW Union leader ) who pulled 
>> the
>> UAW out of the AFL-CIO because of it's support of the Vietnam war. 1972 
>> coup
>> in Chile 1974-1975 Church Committee in U.S. revealing COINTELLPRO. 1976 
>> coup
>> in Argentina and Operation Condor 2003 mysterious plane crash of Paul
>> Wellstone and other " mysterious plane crashes of " maverick " 
>> politicians.
>>
>> And the BIG one.... 9 / 11 !
>>
>> To be in denial of the history of the collusion and conspiracies of the 
>> ruling class against their enemies ( US, the people, their opposition and
>> threat to their rule ) is a BIG MISTAKE !
>>
>> Know your enemy and their M.O. / past practices !
>>
>> Should we exclusively focus on possible conspiracies ?
>>
>> NO !
>>
>> But to ignore the " tell tale signs " is at our own peril ! Especially 
>> when
>> the timing of something is just too damn convienent  to the ruling class. 
>> Timing is everything !
>>
>> David J.
>>
>> David J.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook" 
>> <galliher at illinois.edu> To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net> Cc: 
>> "Peace-discuss List"
>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 4:52 
>> PM Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The real terrorist plot
>>
>>
>>> I did, and it would be interesting to know the immediate circumstances 
>>> of
>>> this event.  But its general cause is more important - it's a response 
>>> to
>>> the war that the US has brought to the Mideast.
>>>
>>> I think Cockburn has it right:
>>>
>>> "The story – now canonized by conspiracists – of the well dressed man 
>>> trying to finagle a passportless Abdulmutallab onto the plane seems to 
>>> be
>>> without foundation. Now there’s an avalanche of punditry about Britain’s
>>> Islamic minority as the petrie dish in which toxic cultures of militant
>>> Islam flourish and multiply. At this rate they’ll soon be deploying the
>>> Delta Force in Birmingham and bombing mosques across the Midlands with
>>> drones.
>>>
>>> "The real petrie dish is US national policy, abetted by junior partners 
>>> in
>>> the UK, France and Germany: widening attacks on Afghanistan, an 
>>> unfolding
>>> record of torturing captives to death since 2001, full support for 
>>> Israel’s
>>> onslaughts on Palestinians and calculated mass murder. What does a 
>>> radical
>>> imam in the UK or Yemen have to offer as incitement to attack America 
>>> that
>>> is as vividly persuasive as Obama and Hillary Clinton’s cheerleading for
>>> Israel or the posture of the US Congress?"
>>>
>>> It should be no mystery why these things are happening. --CGE
>>>
>>>
>>> unionyes wrote:
>>>> Did you read the eye-witness account by the attorney and his wife from
>>>> Detroit at www.mlive.com ?
>>>>
>>>> You should  !
>>>>
>>>> David J.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook" 
>>>> <galliher at illinois.edu> To: "Peace-discuss" 
>>>> <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:15 PM Subject: [Peace-discuss] The 
>>>> real
>>>> terrorist plot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [ALEXANDER COCKBURN assesses the real source of terrorism. --CGE]
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again hands are raised in stupefaction. How could they have 
>>>>> missed
>>>>> him – meaning in this case Umar Abdulmutallab the Nigerian bomber on
>>>>> that flight from Amsterdam to Detroit. Why, his own father – one of 
>>>>> the
>>>>> most powerful bankers in Africa – gave the US embassy in Lagos a
>>>>> warning! He was on the US master computer list of potential terrorists
>>>>> but never made it on to the watch list.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Truthers reject the obvious answers – caution, bureaucratic 
>>>>> inertia, buck-passing, turf fights – and say it was a plot. Obama 
>>>>> joins
>>>>> Bush and Cheney in the big conspiracy. It won’t be long before David
>>>>> Griffin rushes out a book on the affair.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I’m not at all dismayed at evidence that intelligence 
>>>>> gathering networks are flawed, that bureaucrats pass the buck. 
>>>>> Hyper-efficiency in these matters indicates we have arrived at the
>>>>> perfect police state.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course there is room for common sense and elementary vigilance. In
>>>>> the case of the Virginia Tech killer there was plenty of evidence that
>>>>> Cho Seung-hui was a time bomb waiting to explode. Students talked 
>>>>> about
>>>>>  him as a possible shooter and refused to take classes with him. His
>>>>> essays so disturbed one of his teachers with their violent ravings 
>>>>> that
>>>>> she arranged a secret signal in case she needed security during her
>>>>> tutorials.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then was there was proof positive that the time bomb had exploded
>>>>> and the mass murder session began in the engineering building, the 
>>>>> police state proved all too human in actual performance. The police
>>>>> cowered behind their cruisers until Cho Seung-hui finished off the 
>>>>> last
>>>>> batch of his 32 victims, then killed himself. Then the police bravely
>>>>> rushed in and started sticking their guns in the faces of the
>>>>> traumatised students, screaming at them to freeze or be shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Major Hasan offers another bracing illustration of the human capacity
>>>>> to avoid unpleasant decisions, like dealing with an Army shrink who 
>>>>> had
>>>>>  Soldier of Islam on his visiting cards, discussed openly the ethics 
>>>>> of
>>>>>  armed resistance to Christian assaults on Islam and so forth.
>>>>>
>>>>> But without the advantage of hindsight were the signs that obvious? 
>>>>> Not
>>>>>  really. A Serbian woman I met at a New Years Party says that on her
>>>>> way from Abu Dhabi to Seattle she passed though Amsterdam airport the 
>>>>> same day as Abdulmutallab and security was tight and the questioning
>>>>> she got was pretty rigorous. The story – now canonized by 
>>>>> conspiracists
>>>>> – of the well dressed man trying to finagle a passportless
>>>>> Abdulmutallab onto the plane seems to be without foundation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now there’s an avalanche of punditry about Britain’s Islamic minority
>>>>> as the petrie dish in which toxic cultures of militant Islam flourish
>>>>> and multiply. At this rate they’ll soon be deploying the Delta Force 
>>>>> in
>>>>>  Birmingham and bombing mosques across the Midlands with drones.
>>>>>
>>>>> The real petrie dish is US national policy, abetted by junior partners
>>>>> in the UK, France and Germany: widening attacks on Afghanistan, an 
>>>>> unfolding record of torturing captives to death since 2001, full
>>>>> support for Israel’s onslaughts on Palestinians and calculated mass
>>>>> murder. What does a radical imam in the UK or Yemen have to offer as
>>>>> incitement to attack America that is as vividly persuasive as Obama 
>>>>> and
>>>>> Hillary Clinton’s cheerleading for Israel or the posture of the US
>>>>> Congress?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.counterpunch.org/