[Peace-discuss] The real terrorist plot

Sun Jan 3 22:43:58 CST 2010

Well, the point is, or ought to be, the best evidence.  I don't think 'mysteries' and real conspiracies are the same thing.  I see plenty of evidence that the US government did things like help get Nelson Mandela locked up, overthrow Allende, etc.  I haven't checked out this latest theory too thoroughly yet, but it ought to depend on the checking, right?

For example, I've seen a lot of arguments put out - videos, websites, etc - about the supposed "9/11 hoax" and so on.  None of it has added up to very much, in my opinion.

Is it plausible that the "security system" is really that incompetent?  You betcha.  There are plenty of reasons to believe this dude just slipped through, but for kicks some time I'll tell you a personal story about my domestic and international travels while on federal probation and confined (in theory) to the Northern District of Mississippi for allegedly threatening to kill a sitting president - ironically including how much time and effort they did waste on a really pretty harmless grad student, who was mocked around town for refusing to kill houseflies, while surely some actual crimes were being committed somewhere.  (Synopsis: Whew!)

I just wouldn't put it past 'em.

Ricky

"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn

--- On Sat, 1/2/10, unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net> wrote:

From: unionyes <unionyes at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The real terrorist plot
To: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>, "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 11:57 PM

Carl,

I think you and Cockburn are missing the main point !

That is, the ruling class has used and continues to use disinformation and false flag operations to influence public opinion !

Don't fall into the trap of propoganda that states that ANY reference to corporate and/or government collusion or CONSPRICACY is a " conspiracy theory " !

Lets review ;

1953 coup in Iran
1954 coup in Guatemala
1961 Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba
1963 coup in Iraq and questionable JFK assasination.
1964 coup in Brazil and Indonesia
1965 U.S. intervension in Dominican Republic and asasination of Diem in Vietnam.
1966 coup in Zaire ( Congo )
1967 assination of Malcolm X
1968 assisnation of Bobby Kennedy
and assisnation of Dr. King.
1970 mysterious plane crash of Walter Reuther ( UAW Union leader ) who pulled the UAW out of the AFL-CIO because of it's support of the Vietnam war.
1972 coup in Chile
1974-1975 Church Committee in U.S. revealing COINTELLPRO.
1976 coup in Argentina and Operation Condor
2003 mysterious plane crash of Paul Wellstone and other " mysterious plane crashes of " maverick " politicians.

And the BIG one.... 9 / 11 !

To be in denial of the history of the collusion and conspiracies of the ruling class against their enemies ( US, the people, their opposition and threat to their rule ) is a BIG MISTAKE !

Know your enemy and their M.O. / past practices !

Should we exclusively focus on possible conspiracies ?

NO !

But to ignore the " tell tale signs " is at our own peril !
Especially when the timing of something is just too damn convienent  to the ruling class.
Timing is everything !

David J.

David J.

----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
To: "unionyes" <unionyes at ameritech.net>
Cc: "Peace-discuss List" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] The real terrorist plot

> I did, and it would be intersting to know the immediate circumstances of this event.  But it's general cause is more important - it's a reponse to the war that the US has brought to the Mideast.
> 
> I think Cockburn has it right:
> 
> "The story – now canonized by conspiracists – of the well dressed man trying to finagle a passportless Abdulmutallab onto the plane seems to be without foundation. Now there’s an avalanche of punditry about Britain’s Islamic minority as the petrie dish in which toxic cultures of militant Islam flourish and multiply. At this rate they’ll soon be deploying the Delta Force in Birmingham and bombing mosques across the Midlands with drones.
> 
> "The real petrie dish is US national policy, abetted by junior partners in the UK, France and Germany: widening attacks on Afghanistan, an unfolding record of torturing captives to death since 2001, full support for Israel’s onslaughts on Palestinians and calculated mass murder. What does a radical imam in the UK or Yemen have to offer as incitement to attack America that is as vividly persuasive as Obama and Hillary Clinton’s cheerleading for Israel or the posture of the US Congress?"
> 
> It should be no mystery why these things are happening. --CGE
> 
> 
> unionyes wrote:
>> Did you read the eye-witness account by the attorney and his wife from Detroit at www.mlive.com ?
>> 
>> You should  !
>> 
>> David J.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu> To: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net> Sent: Friday, January 01,
>> 2010 9:15 PM Subject: [Peace-discuss] The real terrorist plot
>> 
>> 
>>> [ALEXANDER COCKBURN assesses the real source of terrorism. --CGE]
>>> 
>>> Once again hands are raised in stupefaction. How could they have missed him
>>> – meaning in this case Umar Abdulmutallab the Nigerian bomber on that
>>> flight from Amsterdam to Detroit. Why, his own father – one of the most
>>> powerful bankers in Africa – gave the US embassy in Lagos a warning! He was
>>> on the US master computer list of potential terrorists but never made it on
>>> to the watch list.
>>> 
>>> The Truthers reject the obvious answers – caution, bureaucratic inertia,
>>> buck-passing, turf fights – and say it was a plot. Obama joins Bush and
>>> Cheney in the big conspiracy. It won’t be long before David Griffin rushes
>>> out a book on the affair.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I’m not at all dismayed at evidence that intelligence gathering
>>> networks are flawed, that bureaucrats pass the buck. Hyper-efficiency in
>>> these matters indicates we have arrived at the perfect police state.
>>> 
>>> Of course there is room for common sense and elementary vigilance. In the
>>> case of the Virginia Tech killer there was plenty of evidence that Cho
>>> Seung-hui was a time bomb waiting to explode. Students talked about him as
>>> a possible shooter and refused to take classes with him. His essays so
>>> disturbed one of his teachers with their violent ravings that she arranged
>>> a secret signal in case she needed security during her tutorials.
>>> 
>>> And then was there was proof positive that the time bomb had exploded and
>>> the mass murder session began in the engineering building, the police state
>>> proved all too human in actual performance. The police cowered behind their
>>> cruisers until Cho Seung-hui finished off the last batch of his 32 victims,
>>> then killed himself. Then the police bravely rushed in and started sticking
>>> their guns in the faces of the traumatised students, screaming at them to
>>> freeze or be shot.
>>> 
>>> Major Hasan offers another bracing illustration of the human capacity to
>>> avoid unpleasant decisions, like dealing with an Army shrink who had
>>> Soldier of Islam on his visiting cards, discussed openly the ethics of
>>> armed resistance to Christian assaults on Islam and so forth.
>>> 
>>> But without the advantage of hindsight were the signs that obvious? Not
>>> really. A Serbian woman I met at a New Years Party says that on her way
>>> from Abu Dhabi to Seattle she passed though Amsterdam airport the same day
>>> as Abdulmutallab and security was tight and the questioning she got was
>>> pretty rigorous. The story – now canonized by conspiracists – of the well
>>> dressed man trying to finagle a passportless Abdulmutallab onto the plane
>>> seems to be without foundation.
>>> 
>>> Now there’s an avalanche of punditry about Britain’s Islamic minority as
>>> the petrie dish in which toxic cultures of militant Islam flourish and
>>> multiply. At this rate they’ll soon be deploying the Delta Force in
>>> Birmingham and bombing mosques across the Midlands with drones.
>>> 
>>> The real petrie dish is US national policy, abetted by junior partners in
>>> the UK, France and Germany: widening attacks on Afghanistan, an unfolding
>>> record of torturing captives to death since 2001, full support for Israel’s
>>> onslaughts on Palestinians and calculated mass murder. What does a radical
>>> imam in the UK or Yemen have to offer as incitement to attack America that
>>> is as vividly persuasive as Obama and Hillary Clinton’s cheerleading for
>>> Israel or the posture of the US Congress?
>>> 
>>> http://www.counterpunch.org/ _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss 

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