[Peace-discuss] U.S troop rebellion in Vietnam

[C. G. Estabrook]

The crucial fact - both for the outcome of the war and for our understanding of 
it - is that the American conscript army revolted.  It wouldn't be wrong to 
speak of the Vietnam Mutiny (cf. the Sepoy Rebellion).

Along with the subsequent experience of our mercenary army in the Mideast, it's 
made me rethink the notion of a draft.  We worked hard against it 40 years ago. 
(Leigh was the co-founder of the South Bend IN Draft Union, on the model of 
anti-draft organizations that existed around the country.) But today I'd support 
it on the grounds that a citizen army can and should be a check on imperial 
adventures.

Now of course the American military has to be opposed tout court, but maybe one 
day we'll have the luxury to think about how a democratic military might work.

An example I'd like to know about - there's a good study that I haven't read - 
is the Cuban army's defeat of South Africa.  Another interesting if off-the-wall 
study/collection of articles is War Nerd by Gary Brecher.  (I tried to read 
Martin Van Creveld's The Culture of War but didn't get very far.)


On 7/13/10 7:45 PM, David Green wrote:
> If I ever saw these numbers, I wouldn't have guessed their magnitude.
> By the way, that's "Restrepo".
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* C. G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
> *To:* David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Tue, July 13, 2010 6:46:54 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] U.S troop rebellion in Vietnam
>
> Part of the living memory of those years even if not in the history
> books/official propaganda - but it's interesting to put some numbers on it.
>
> Thanks for this. I hadn't seen it. --CGE
>
> On 7/13/10 5:03 PM, David Green wrote:
>  > Part of a critical discussion of Restropo:
>  >
>  > As the American War in Vietnam staggered to a close, U.S. troops were in an open
>  > state of rebellion. Fraggings -- attacks on commanders (often by /frag/mentation
>  > grenade) -- were rising, so was the escape into drug use. Troops bucked orders,
>  > mutinied, and regularly undertook "search and evade" missions, holing up in safe
>  > spots while calling in false coordinates.
>  >
>  > AWOLs and desertions went through the roof. During World War II, Marine Corps
>  > desertion rates peaked at 8.8 per 1,000 in 1943. In 1972, the last full year of
>  > U.S. combat in Vietnam, the Marines had a desertion rate of 65.3 per 1,000. And
>  > precious few Marines were even in Vietnam at that point. AWOL rates were also
>  > staggering -- 166.4 per 1,000 for the much more numerous Army and 170 per 1,000
>  > for the Marines. In a widely-read 1971 /Armed Forces Journal/ article, retired
>  > Colonel Robert D. Heinl, Jr., wrote, "By every conceivable indicator, our army
>  > that now remains in Vietnam is in a state of approaching collapse, with
>  > individual units avoiding or having refused combat, murdering their officers and
>  > noncommissioned officers, drug-ridden, and dispirited where not near-mutinous."
>  >
>  > http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/13-11
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
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